Would I feel any difference with a K & N air filter !!!!!!

[Malo]

So I been thinking about geting a K & N air filter for my 05 trailblazer seens I heard good things about them. My question is would I really feel any difference then my stock one, are they worth it also would you guys recommend going full synthetic on a 05 trailblazer with 122k miles or high mile oil ????

 

[Playsinsnow]

I have had a k&n filter for almost 7 years. Some folks swear the oil damages the maf sensor. I let it dry thoroughly like the directions say. And yes switch to Mobil1 synthetic. No reason, I run it in both my rides.

The Green filter is popular. Do a search. Trailz...?


You will NEVER feel the difference with an air filter. Hear it yeah and may "feel" it on wallet because if it's crappy you will pay.

 

[jrSS]

If you lose the stock air intake resonator...it'll sound awesome. Other than that probably not many gains. And you may wanna stay clear from a k&n...go with a dry filter.

 

[Matt]

I run an AFE dry filter, but if I were to buy one now, I'd get a Green filter.

 

[The_Roadie]

I used to believe the K&N marketing hype. Removed mine in a couple of months after a little more research. Basically, they say it has higher flow. Only way that can happen is if it has fewer restrictions and that happens with higher pore size. Thus dirt MUST be able to sneak in there along with the increased airflow. Dirt is bad. Google for many sites that discuss the physics. No need to repeat the entire debate here.

 

[glfredrick]

I am a fan of "free" and "cold" air flow to the throttle body. Restrictions always equal pumping losses on a naturally aspirated vehicle. For illustration, think of placing a finger over the outlet of a water hose. What happens to the water that comes out? All other things being equal, there are small gains to be had with a free system, hence the use on ALL high performance machines.

I am not a fan of K&N for the reasons mentioned above, but if anyone wishes to try a K&N drop-in filter for their Trailblazer, I have a low-mile used one for sale. First $25 plus shipping gets it. Has about 3000 miles on it (switched to True Flow modified CAI -- see my thread on install).

I am also a HUGE proponent of TRUE synthetic oil. I use Amsoil.

Please note that there is a difference between oils called "synthetic" and it pays to understand those differences, for they make all the difference, so to speak.

There are Group III and Group IV oils, with group III "technically" called "synthetic" becasuse they are re-refined (sometimes called "re-cracked") into a higher level of molecule state. BUT... They are still dino-based oils and still have parafin and STILL NEED viscosity modifiers to flow out in cold weather, etc. A Group IV (true synthetic PAO-base stock) has no need for viscosity modifiers whatsoever and they feature uniform-length long-chain molecules (not found in dino oil no matter how often or how much it is re-refined) that give the true performance advantages of synthetic oil, i.e., pour point FAR BETTER than any viscosity modified oil (which by nature must be the "high" number on the label in viscosity with additives stirred in to make the oil "act like" it has a lower pour point for the low number on the lable), not prone to breaking down (gives the extended change intervals), and higher lubricity (ability to "stick" to the metal being lubricated, plus a higher "shear point" which means that the oil can support more weight before giving way to metal-to-metal contact). All this, and more, make true synthetic oils the way to go.

Now, the question is, which actually ARE true synthetics, and that is difficult to tell on any given day. I know several that are and several others that are not, but it would take some research to make a complete list. What I do say is "buyer beware" for what is often called "synthetic" is not (see above -- base stock means everything!). In the Amsoil line, for instance, the ORIGINAL AMSOIL product is the TRUE synthetic PAO base stock oil. Their XL line (and others) are not true synthetics, and are instead re-cracked dino-base oil with additives. In the Mobil 1 line, the extended life version IS true Group IV oil, but the regular Mobil 1 is not. To the best of my knowledge, none of the other "brand name" oils are Group IV oils, and that list includes Castrol, Valvoline, Havoline, Pennzoil, etc. All are only Group III oils with friction and viscosity additives.

Will TRUE synthetics make a difference? Absolutely! Especially if one lives in cold climates. The difference in oil performance when the pour point is as good at -25F as it is at 70F makes a tremendous difference to vehicle wear, fuel economy, and longevity. I run the Amsoil in every component on the TB except the T-case, where I use the GM specified product.

 

[blazinlow89]

I ran a K&N with a home brew intake for years and while it did sound cool that was about it. I removed it and put the factory system back on and not only did I now realize that I lost some low end torque, my MPG had increased after putting the OEM plastic back under the hood. My throttle body also always seemed to get dirty faster and like Roadie stated about air flow vs particles passing the filter, hold up a K&N filter to light and look through the inside. It looks like screen mesh for a window (smaller holes of course). I also ran an oiled foam filter early on and had better results, but the foam had to be replaced every couple of years.

IMO if you want the sound than go for it, otherwise gut the stock airbox and get a green filter.

As for oil, I will never, ever run Mobil 1 in my truck again. I have ran Royal Purple since I bought the truck with no issues. I switched to Mobil 1 on my last oil change and I hate it. Another thing I have noticed is that with the Mobil 1 I have had to add about 1/2 a quart of oil since the last change. Never had to add with RP in the 6 years I ran it.

When I can finally get ELF or the Euro Shell oil off the shelf in 0W-40, I will stop using Mobil 1 for the Jetta as well.

 

[dmanns67]

+1 for Mobil 1 and Green Filter USA. Check out HardTrailz's thread on green filters, that is why I changed from K&N and went green.

 

[Malo]

Thanks for the advise, it's crazy how many replays I got just over night, I post threads on trailvoy site and it takes like 2 weeks for some one to reply. On another note I just order my green air filter for $57.98 should be here by Thursday thanks again every one. Still don't know if I should go with Mobil 1 on the truck I heard good and bad things about it as far as royal purple not a lot of places Cary it over by where I live.

 

[blazinlow89]

Thanks for the advise, it's crazy how many replays I got just over night, I post threads on trailvoy site and it takes like 2 weeks for some one to reply. On another note I just order my green air filter for $57.98 should be here by Thursday thanks again every one. Still don't know if I should go with Mobil 1 on the truck I heard good and bad things about it as far as royal purple not a lot of places Cary it over by where I live.

Walmart stocks it regularly. Im going to order it off Amazon next time I need it, $37 for a 5 quart jug, or its like $100 for 12 quarts (cheaper to buy the 5 quart jug). Might just buy 3 of them and have enough for 2 oil changes.

 

[The_Roadie]

I post threads on trailvoy site and it takes like 2 weeks for some one to reply.

Trailvoy is dead because we all left it 2 years ago. Anybody posting there just didn't get the memo. It's too bad, but the greedy new corporate owners of trailvoy drove us away and they're threatened by any mention of this new non-profit, enthusiast-owned site because it might cost them some ad revenue. So nobody there can mention gmtnation without the risk of being banned. And they're so coy they won't even come out and admit hundreds of us are "banned" so they use the lie "No longer with us" as if we all died or something.

 

[Wooluf1952]

Welcome


In case you haven't heard:
http://gmtnation.com/forums/topic/218-welcome-to-gmtnationcom-heres-the-story/

 

[BoldAdventure]

K&N marketing claims are right up there with the Tornado fuel saver!

 

[IllogicTC]

An increase in pore size would obviously boost air flow, but what about overall surface area? I mean, that's one of the ideas behind having two (or more) smaller valves rather than one large one on intake/exhaust, for instance. But, from what I've seen, it looks like the K&N actually has about the same area as a regular OEM pleated filter.

If you really want to go for it, OP, don't think too much on the potential MAF issue. '05 doesn't have one. But all the other things people have pointed out may make you reconsider. I think you might find it better to just remove the top from the air box, I'm not sure on the dimensions with it all closed up but it seems kind of restrictive to me. When I last changed my filter, all the dirt was in a pretty concentrated zone facing the intake pipe. I guess something like this is to be expected because dirt in the air doesn't travel like air itself, but it seemed a bit too constrained. I've had other vehicles where at least the entire filter showed dirt (greater toward the intake of course), instead of just one small area.

I have zero actual results to back this up, this is just my theory. I see all kinds of people posting CAI on here with no top on the air box, I'm not sure how well it'd work with OEM filters or if there's any issues to worry about besides ensuring the filter stays in its hole.

As for actually FEELING the difference, I think the intake is already pretty well tuned to what the engine needs from the factory, unless you get into turbocharging or something.

 

[Iahawkeye]

So not to stray to far from the topic at hand, but the op also asked about switching over to synthetic with 122,000 miles. I have been wondering about doing the same, however, i am sitting more like 190,000 miles. Are there any potential concerns about switching? I am looking to increase the times between oil changes. In case I decide to stick with the conventional oil, how long would you recommend to go between oil changes? Thanks for the wisdom.

 

[Malo]

Yeaaaa buddyyy it got here today am going to install it tonight " i have a 7 month pregnet wife and a 8 year old son when they go to sleep is my free time usully after 12 am" il drive it around tomorrow and see if i can feel any difference also i when with mobile 1 and a mobile 1 oil filter yesterday. By the way I when't with the Green filter

 

[glfredrick]

Thanks for the advise, it's crazy how many replays I got just over night, I post threads on trailvoy site and it takes like 2 weeks for some one to reply. On another note I just order my green air filter for $57.98 should be here by Thursday thanks again every one. Still don't know if I should go with Mobil 1 on the truck I heard good and bad things about it as far as royal purple not a lot of places Cary it over by where I live.

Depends on which variety of Mobil 1 you get. The extended life product is true synthetic (PAO base stock instead of dino oil). Their regular stuff is just re-cracked dino oil. But, Chevy specs Mobil 1 (regular) in the Vettes. I've found most manufacturers going to synthetic oils now that their warranty periods are extending beyond 12,000 (or even 36,000) mile range. Wonder what they know that many consumers don't?

Oh, and I prefer original Amsoil. First and still (in my opinion) the best. Can be mail ordered, and if one spends an extra $10 they can buy into dealer-level pricing. Sell a bit to friends and yours gets paid for. Note that I am not an Amsoil dealer, so don't PM me for supplies. Don't have time to stock and ship product... Just been USING their oil since the late 1970s with awesome results, even with incredibly long change intervals (like once per year, as many as 25K miles!).

 

[glfredrick]

So not to stray to far from the topic at hand, but the op also asked about switching over to synthetic with 122,000 miles. I have been wondering about doing the same, however, i am sitting more like 190,000 miles. Are there any potential concerns about switching? I am looking to increase the times between oil changes. In case I decide to stick with the conventional oil, how long would you recommend to go between oil changes? Thanks for the wisdom.

The one thing to consider is that true synthetic oils tend to "clean" passages and seals better than dino oil, which has parafin that tends to gather at leak spots, plugging them. The "high mileage" offerings do so even more, plus have seal softener compounds that swell seals up to halt leaks (for a very brief time -- then seals just start deteriorating causing fatal leaks in short order!). Another thing is that synthetic oils are costlier, which means that if one is loosing oil it will cost more to keep the engine full. Other than that, there is no further harm and a lot of good that might be accomplished, as the true synthetics (group IV PAO base stock) are superior in lubrication, flow out, viscosity range, ability to run long-term without shearing of molecules, etc., etc., etc., all good for an engine.

I've found over the years that Amsoil is great, but I would never recommend it for a break in oil, as the engine will never actually wear in. To very briefly fill in the back story here, I was once a quality control enginner for a major hydraulics firm. I had access to a lot of testing equipment and tested a great number of motor oils. Amsoil simply blew me away with its performance -- as did Pennzoil and Quaker State (on the opposite end of the spectrum -- were HORRID!) -- the Amsoil simply would not even leave a track on a recirculating ball test (Pennzoil cut the shaft in half within an hour of run time!) where a spring-loaded ball bearing runs on a spinning shaft with a mesured oil drip. Wear is measured and indicates the ultimate lubricity of the oil in question. Valvoline products were the best dino oil at the time I ran the tests. That was prior to the new re-cracked so-called "synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" oils that we currently see, which I am sure are equal to the Valvoline offering I tested back then.

Hope this helps...

 

[illy]

Oh, and I prefer original Amsoil. First and still (in my opinion) the best. Can be mail ordered, and if one spends an extra $10 they can buy into dealer-level pricing. Sell a bit to friends and yours gets paid for. Note that I am not an Amsoil dealer, so don't PM me for supplies. Don't have time to stock and ship product... Just been USING their oil since the late 1970s with awesome results, even with incredibly long change intervals (like once per year, as many as 25K miles!).

25k per change thats crazy! the oil does break down? that seems a little extreme to me

 

[dla442]

i have had a K/N filter for about 3 years now. Not sure about claims of horsepower and mpg, but it does save $$$ when having to replace the paper filters over the long run. OIl/MAF sensor...no problems yet, but I am sure thats because some oil the piss out of it and slap it right in the case after wards. Throttle body, gets cleaned every 20 k with me anyway regardless. I have heard no evil bad things about K/N, just depends on when you add up the paper vs cleaning the k/n...its all $$$ in the long run. I still have the stock air filter case and didnt want to do the cold air intake thing as it sounds kinda rough for family use. The debate will always be there as its preference of who thinks whats best. I run a k/n in my impala as well and no isssues. What the difference between a k/n and green filter? they both use oil and wash..one claims synthetic oil but its still oil. As far as engine oil goes, I run valvoline every 5k religiously with a fram hd filter and engine still dumps out 5k used oil nice and clean after 128k.

 

[glfredrick]

25k per change thats crazy! the oil does break down? that seems a little extreme to me

Of course it is extreme... But, I've been doing that with vehicles since 1977 and most of mine run in excess of 250K before I sell them, and they are still not using oil at that point.

I do change the filter at mid-point of the year and add a quart of oil (or whatever is needed to top off the system). No filter will last that long, but TRUE Group IV oils certainly can and do last that long.

Early on, I tested with Blackstone, but my tests always came back clear, so I decided to forego the testing for the most part, just sticking to my regular schedule of annual changes. Many years I run less than 25K miles, so that is the outer limits, and when I do run that many miles, it is because I am doing a LOT of highway driving, which is generally lighter load than city stop and go, with constant accelleration and frequent stops.

For the record, oil really never does "break down." Rather, it gets clogged with contamination from combustion process, over-heating, etc. With proper (by-pass) filtration, synthetic oil could last 100K miles and many have done just that with frequent oil testing to verify oil condition. Used motor oil is often re-cycled and sold as semi-synthetic (and tests well!). One popular brand that does this is Wal Mart's house brand oil, Supertech.

Also, the high costs of pure Group IV synthetics that many complain about is offset by less frequent changes.

Here are some rough numbers to consider:

Pennzoil -- 6 chg. @ 3000 mi -- 5 qts 5W-30 @ $3.00 per qt -- $15.00 -- $90.00 per year or per 18K miles.
Fram Filter -- 6 change @ 3000 miles @ $5.00 -- $30.00 per year or per 18K miles.

Amsoil -- 1 chg @ 18,000 mi -- 6 qts. 5W-30 @$8.00 per qt -- $48.00 per year or per 18K miles.
Wix Filter -- 2 change @ 9,000 miles @10.00 -- $20.00 per year or per 18K miles.

Totals: Pennzoil and Fram -- $120.00 Amsoil with extended interval change -- $68.00.

And, I will suggest that Amsoil is better oil at 18K than the Pennzoil is at 0K miles... I have a TON of anecdotal experience to back up my personal views of the difference between oil and filter choices mentioned above, most having something to do with engines throwing rod bearings before 100K miles and some having to do with what an engine looks like when the intake is removed during the rebuild process (and confirmed by my long-term machinest, who tells me he can tell his customers which oil they ran simply by looking at the internals of an engine).

 

[IllogicTC]

Some further reading: Why aftermarket "Cold Air" kits don't work

Some more considerations:

-The stock intake is already halfway to cold-air anyway. It draws air from a forward position away from heat, and has a nice thick plastic cover over the filter which will help with insulation. At some point I may actually take my probe out and run some numbers on actual temperature, in particular black shroud on vs removed.

-When you read about a product, don't just take the manufacturer's claims as Gospel. They're trying to sell you a product. More importantly, I feel that some CAI manufacturers are playing off general ignorance to make sales. And since so many people have daddy's checkbook and think the chrome looks awesome, they'll get it and when they realize how little gain there actually is for $300 they'll pretend it DOES help to make themselves not look like a fool. Yes, air is more dense the colder it is. But the difference is microcosmic. At 150 degrees fahrenheit at sea level with 0% humidity, there is 0.013587 pounds-mass/cubic foot of oxygen. At 0 fahrenheit in the same conditions, its 0.018018 lbm/ft3. This is at extreme scenarios (I guarantee a CAI is NOT dropping your intake temp 150 degrees), and you're only gaining not quite 0.005 pounds of air per cubic foot. That may actually make a difference (because more fuel will be inducted to compensate), but again a CAI isn't going to make that night-and-day difference.

-CAIs are not magic "one mod to completely blow out your intake" deals. One little part in the flowchain isn't going to make a difference when it's not really doing all that much (see above). If you have more flow, what does it matter? Your control over the engine isn't controlled by the filter, it's controlled by the throttle plate, and to actually get more freely-flowing intake air you'll have to increase the bore on it. Unless you're WOT the entire time free flow isn't worth a turd in your pocket. And this is before we get into the intake resonator, the nice 180 the intake manifold does, the intake valves themselves... (which by the way, the total area of each cylinder's intake valve set is smaller than area of the intake tube, so it doesn't matter).

-Larger pore sizes on air filters can increase potential wear, depending on the conditions you're driving in.

If you're looking to upgrade your intake system, CAI just isn't the way to do it in this vehicle. There's threads dedicated to supercharging and turbocharging the 4.2 motor on here, an active system with proven results (because we're not relying on slight temperature gradients but actual pressure) WILL give you a difference you will feel.

 

[Grimor]

the k&n HAI is a waste of money. after lots and lots of testing, even after switching to a green filter, it just isn't worth it. at all. not even a little bit.

the stock air box is fine, just remove the resonator

 

[IllogicTC]

the k&n HAI is a waste of money. after lots and lots of testing, even after switching to a green filter, it just isn't worth it. at all. not even a little bit.

the stock air box is fine, just remove the resonator

I was posting based off logic and reasoning, but it's nice to see what a person who's actually installed the kit has to say.

But I suppose if you have a chroner (that is, you pop a tent over chrome) you'll probably still install it anyway.

 

[triz]

The manufacturers nowadays make the air intakes so efficient it does not pay to switch unless you just like the sound. I do have a K&N filter on my truck but to be honest I do not feel ant difference. I am just able to keep it on longer and reuse it versus chucking the old paper filter.

As far as oils go. Synthetics have come a long way and I would not hesitate to use synthetic at 100k miles.

 

[IllogicTC]

Look under the hood of an old car. You'll probably see a ring sitting on top where the filter goes. The filter may be exposed completely, or may have a pipe pointing off usually at 45-degrees from parallel, but the pipe is still above the engine. CAI may actually make sense there. Now they're all tucked off in the corners. I had a 1991 Ford F150 w/351W, it even had a "cold" design. It had a snorkel that pulled air from the lip between the grill and the hood, off to the side where you installed the air filter, then twin tubes feeding into the manifold. While I bet CAI would have looked awesome with the twin-tube manifold, there'd be no performance gain I don't think.

The "Bullitt" Mustang they produced a few years ago featured a CAI, along with other things, and only gained 15HP total vs the GT. I don't believe the CAI had much, if any, effect, since they also adjusted the software behind the motor operation (and this CAN make a big difference, ask anyone who's gotten a PCMofNC flash).

 

[blazinlow89]

The major problem is that companies especially K&N use a very basic and standard design for all vehicles. They follow the basics of the stock intake path and include a "heat shield" all made from thin metal which is most likely old beer cans.

They do work, dyno graphs and other info has proven that they do indeed increase power, however it is usually high in the power band in areas not normally used and with a loss to low end torque. Some companies like AIRRAID and Volant actually make more of an effort to optimize the intake for each platform, still not worth the premium to replace the factory airbox. I ran homebrew with decent results and will always recommend that over an expensive HAI (thanks Grimor). The aluminum may look better but it causes another issue which the stock intake or composite (plastic, etc) do not have which is heat soak. It may be irrelevant on a vehicle like ours, but on a car making 500+ HP heat is the enemy, they are also fine tuned to make the most of any modifications.

Illogic no disrespect, but I am going to have to say the article you linked is crap. The guy talks about MAF seeing turbulence and causing issues etc. I call BS, MAF like ours right at the intake tube will see turbulence directly from the pleats in the filter and the sharp edge where the filter meets the mounting flange. MAF at the other end closer to the TB get turbulence from that as well as the ribs in most intake tubes to compensate for bends and engine movement, as well as any hoses or ports hooked into it. It would not change much going to an aftermarket intake, if at all. His "eureka" story is all a load of BS, millions of these kits are sold installed and work without incident. He gets a car with issues and it just happens to be the intake for his stories sake. I searched for "proof " of it and the only thing I found was improperly sealing intake manifolds from the factory. There are a lot misconceptions, lies, myths and BS with CAI and aftermarket intakes in general, however they do have a purpose just not on 95% of the vehicles in operation.

I think the best that can be done for trucks like ours is a better drop in filter. They fall into the category with throttle body spacers and ebay electric superchargers. Only ebay because a company developed an Eaton ran off some nasty brushless motors.

 

[IllogicTC]

The major problem is that companies especially K&N use a very basic and standard design for all vehicles. They follow the basics of the stock intake path and include a "heat shield" all made from thin metal which is most likely old beer cans.

They do work, dyno graphs and other info has proven that they do indeed increase power, however it is usually high in the power band in areas not normally used and with a loss to low end torque. Some companies like AIRRAID and Volant actually make more of an effort to optimize the intake for each platform, still not worth the premium to replace the factory airbox. I ran homebrew with decent results and will always recommend that over an expensive HAI (thanks Grimor). The aluminum may look better but it causes another issue which the stock intake or composite (plastic, etc) do not have which is heat soak. It may be irrelevant on a vehicle like ours, but on a car making 500+ HP heat is the enemy, they are also fine tuned to make the most of any modifications.

Illogic, I am going to have to say the article you linked is crap. The guy talks about MAF seeing turbulence and causing issues etc. I call BS, MAF like ours right at the intake tube will see turbulence directly from the pleats in the filter and the sharp edge where the filter meets the mounting flange. MAF at the other end closer to the TB get turbulence from that as well as the ribs in most intake tubes to compensate for bends and engine movement, as well as any hoses or ports hooked into it. It would not change much going to an aftermarket intake, if at all. His "eureka" story is all a load of BS, millions of these kits are sold installed and work without incident. He gets a car with issues and it just happens to be the intake for his stories sake. I searched for "proof " of it and the only thing I found was improperly sealing intake manifolds from the factory. There are a lot misconceptions, lies, myths and BS with CAI and aftermarket intakes in general, however they do have a purpose just not on 95% of the vehicles in operation.

I think the best that can be done for trucks like ours is a better drop in filter. They fall into the category with throttle body spacers and ebay electric superchargers. Only ebay because a company developed an Eaton ran off some nasty brushless motors.

Fair enough. But would it be correct to assume that when a car company drops in a MAF, they've already calibrated either it or the PCM software translating it to account for any possible turbulence from the stock system? If so, reducing turbulence would make the system think there's actually less air coming in.

It is well understood that turbulence increases cooling. The main question I have now is using a nice straight pipe that's generally offered as part of a CAI kit, would reducing turbulence fool the motor into thinking there was less oxygen being inducted, or would it be countered by readings from the O2 sensor to provide the ECU with accurate data?

 

[blazinlow89]

Fair enough. But would it be correct to assume that when a car company drops in a MAF, they've already calibrated either it or the PCM software translating it to account for any possible turbulence from the stock system? If so, reducing turbulence would make the system think there's actually less air coming in.

It is well understood that turbulence increases cooling. The main question I have now is using a nice straight pipe that's generally offered as part of a CAI kit, would reducing turbulence fool the motor into thinking there was less oxygen being inducted, or would it be countered by readings from the O2 sensor to provide the ECU with accurate data?

1st question, yes they should be tuned to run within a certain parameter. With the MAF on the GM trucks they have a screen to help reduce turbulence for a more accurate reading, and its a wire system that detects changes in frequency not actual air flow. So yes and no, its tuned within certain parameters from the factory, but smoothing out the turbulence would create a more stable intake stream for more accurate readings. Seeing as the MAF sensor is mounted directly after the filter changing the filter should have a negligible effect on turbulence.

Question 2, the PCM utilizing the O2 sensors would be able to see readings that are off and compensate. If it did change anything it would cause the engine to run slightly rich which would be corrected anyways by the PCM.

 

[IllogicTC]

1st question, yes they should be tuned to run within a certain parameter. With the MAF on the GM trucks they have a screen to help reduce turbulence for a more accurate reading, and its a wire system that detects changes in frequency not actual air flow. So yes and no, its tuned within certain parameters from the factory, but smoothing out the turbulence would create a more stable intake stream for more accurate readings. Seeing as the MAF sensor is mounted directly after the filter changing the filter should have a negligible effect on turbulence.

Question 2, the PCM utilizing the O2 sensors would be able to see readings that are off and compensate. If it did change anything it would cause the engine to run slightly rich which would be corrected anyways by the PCM.

I agree, filter wouldn't do diddly-dong unless you modify the system to accept some other shape of filter or something, maybe. I forgot GM uses a different type than the "heated wire" style MAF, as an '05 owner I have no concept of such things

Well then, at least installing a tube that would provide a more laminar flow may help things a little bit. But how much effect does laminar-vs-turbulent flow have before the throttle body if it's not WOT? The throttle at more-closed positions would affect the movement of the air at the manifold more than the induction system, since the brunt of that force is taken by the throttle plate itself.

I've found another interesting read here. It mentions the MAP and MAF sensors, however as you mentioned ours wouldn't be affected by anything they describe in there since it's already right behind the filter, and the filter is already a cone-type (apparently on some other systems that can affect it). All I gather from it is that laminar flow during induction is only really needed to keep the MAF in certain systems from getting goofy (in this case, they're talking BMWs). In the end turbulence is used in our motors anyway, the "swirl" Vortecs create to better mix the fuel-air mixture in the cylinder.

 

[IllogicTC]

Either way, I don't find the CAI to be cost-efficient as a "maybe it'll do what it says on the tin, maybe not" item.

I myself would much rather go with a turbo/supercharger. Properly set up, it's guaranteed to give you a nice bump in dyno specs, and the sound produced is a panty-dropper.

 

[blazinlow89]

I agree, filter wouldn't do diddly-dong unless you modify the system to accept some other shape of filter or something, maybe. I forgot GM uses a different type than the "heated wire" style MAF, as an '05 owner I have no concept of such things

Well then, at least installing a tube that would provide a more laminar flow may help things a little bit. But how much effect does laminar-vs-turbulent flow have before the throttle body if it's not WOT? The throttle at more-closed positions would affect the movement of the air at the manifold more than the induction system, since the brunt of that force is taken by the throttle plate itself.

I've found another interesting read here. It mentions the MAP and MAF sensors, however as you mentioned ours wouldn't be affected by anything they describe in there since it's already right behind the filter, and the filter is already a cone-type (apparently on some other systems that can affect it). All I gather from it is that laminar flow during induction is only really needed to keep the MAF in certain systems from getting goofy (in this case, they're talking BMWs). In the end turbulence is used in our motors anyway, the "swirl" Vortecs create to better mix the fuel-air mixture in the cylinder.

My experience in the GM world is limited having dealt with it on my old Regal, a bit with the early 2000's LSX engines and the Avalanche I honestly had to google to refresh my memory on what system GM used. I have a good bit of knowledge on the Ford MAF sensors as my unlces specialty was Mustang parts, and I knew more than I wanted to about those engines and their upgrades.

That would interesting to see how much of an effect it has on MAF readings at different RPM ranges and temperatures, as well as with different circumstances. 3" straight tube, 6" what length would be optimal for consistent readings and more laminar flow. It would also be cool to see whats going on inside the intake tube into the MAF going to the TB with thermal imaging and smoke so you could see the flow of air.

Interesting read, and good point on the turbulence in our engines. Going back to discussions I have had about throttle body spacers. After the intake tube you have multiple things that will cause turbulence including the resonator, the throttle body plate, the expansion into the intake plenum, the bends going into each intake runner, then the fuel injector and finally the intake valves. By the time the air gets to combustion chamber it has been spun around, flipped over and just basically abused and used before being blown up and kicked to the curb. Hell even the little pieces of casting flash can create pockets of turbulence.

Either way, I don't find the CAI to be cost-efficient as a "maybe it'll do what it says on the tin, maybe not" item.

I myself would much rather go with a turbo/supercharger. Properly set up, it's guaranteed to give you a nice bump in dyno specs, and the sound produced is a panty-dropper.

Agree, agree and agree. The only mod that can be done (externally, and cost effectively) to increase power and performance is a good tune.

Dont lie you just like the sound of a blow off valve.

 

[IllogicTC]

Dont lie you just like the sound of a blow off valve.

Nah, plenty of diesels don't have blow-off valves running around here (or at least you can't hear them if installed), and I like it. Adds more "flavor" to the aural experience, and as a fan of machinery in general I find having a part running at over 100k RPMs in some cases to be quite interesting.

Personally I prefer the supercharger sound, that one on that other thread around here with the M112 on it is pretty killer. Sounds futuristic, even.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Green Filter!

I use regular dino oil and get 250K per vehicle without issue.

My buddy was always telling me how great the synthetic in his newer jeep was and how I should switch. He always had to add oil between changes. He switched to standard dino oil and no longer has to add oil and actually gets better mpg. I definitely tell him about how much money he wasted on synthetic.


To answer main question again... NO you will not feel a difference.

 

[blazinlow89]

Nah, plenty of diesels don't have blow-off valves running around here (or at least you can't hear them if installed), and I like it. Adds more "flavor" to the aural experience, and as a fan of machinery in general I find having a part running at over 100k RPMs in some cases to be quite interesting.

Personally I prefer the supercharger sound, that one on that other thread around here with the M112 on it is pretty killer. Sounds futuristic, even.

The sound of a roots blower is awesome, as much time as I spent selling parts for that blower I should have a few laying around. I like the expandability of a turbo, the sound of an eaton and the simplicity of a centrifugal.

Blow of thing was a joke

 

[Malo]

Well it's been a week or so seen I install my green filter on my 05 TB, not really much of a diff, accelerates a little quicker plus I notice my engine is a little quitter now seen I change to the Mobil 1. I just got in the mail today my Acdelco plugs and o2 sensor hope to get it done by the weekend if this Illinois weather gets better. Next after that is the transfer case fluid and tranny, and the damn po410 code am going to start with the air pump relay witch got here today to this damn Tb

 

[blazinlow89]

Order a new trans fluid pan with the drain plug, or get the kit to install one. Will make future fluid changes a hell of a lot easier.

 

[willbill92]

Has anybody else noticed that on the stock intake system that the air filter gets ridiculously dirty on the part of the filter that sits on the bottom? I just changed my filter 2 weeks ago and it already looks like I need to change it.

 

[IllogicTC]

Has anybody else noticed that on the stock intake system that the air filter gets ridiculously dirty on the part of the filter that sits on the bottom? I just changed my filter 2 weeks ago and it already looks like I need to change it.

I have. Takes on a slight rust color - I assume it's because water in small amounts may enter the intake horn and then settle there momentarily before draining out the little hole. Since the air filter's really not built to sit just anywhere, the metal they use seems to be a bit more prone to rust.

If you have any coloration like that, confirm your drain hole isn't clogged. I removed the filter and poured some water where it sits in the washer reservoir. It drained fairly quickly for the amount I put in there, so mine seems to be just from over time.

 

[willbill92]

I have. Takes on a slight rust color - I assume it's because water in small amounts may enter the intake horn and then settle there momentarily before draining out the little hole. Since the air filter's really not built to sit just anywhere, the metal they use seems to be a bit more prone to rust.

If you have any coloration like that, confirm your drain hole isn't clogged. I removed the filter and poured some water where it sits in the washer reservoir. It drained fairly quickly for the amount I put in there, so mine seems to be just from over time.

Ok I will check that out in the morning. Thanks IllogicTC

Also is it necessary to have the cover over the air filter or could I run without it?