NEED HELP Vortec 4.2L I-6 2006 Trailblazer 2 Wheel Drive Oil Pan Removal

Discussion in 'Vortec 4.2L I-6' started by wes112565, Jan 2, 2017.

  1. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    Hello all,,

    First post on here.
    I am in the need of a manual (step by step) on pulling the oil pan with engine still in frame.
    I have read many threads of folks having same issue of the oil gauge falling to 0.
    I have replaced oil pressure sensors, no fix.
    I have dealt with this awhile, first drained oil and to my surprise it was like something you would find in the bottom of a marsh, this 3 weeks after i just had it serviced at a local oil change shop.
    That's another story for another time

    Any ways after 5 oil changes and filters with in 6 weeks, I continue to have the oil pressure drop to Zero, I know its not just gauges if you leave it running for a period of time the lifter will start to sing to you. I actually cut some of the filters open to find a lot of residue crud in them.
    Every time I drain oil I get a lot of fine fine residue, kind like a varnish look.

    So my next step I assume will be to drop pan and clean lower engine out and service the oil pick up screen,
    I believe i am getting a plugged off screen issue.

    When it does this you can set for around 5 minutes and start it up and 40lbs on the oil gauge but you drive it for a-bit and you can see the gauge just gradually drop to 0.


    Any help would be appreciated greatly,
    Thank you Wes
     
  2. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Do not even bother looking at the oil pressure gauge. It's fake, period. The sensor is just an on/off switch. You need to hook up a mechanical test gauge to see the real pressures. It could be pickup blockage, a leaking pickup seal at the pump or the pump/pressure relief valve.

    What do you.mean that the oil was like it was from a marsh? If it is milky, you have more issues with coolant in the oil. And the metal bits you're finding aren't good neither. Please be more precise about what you're finding.
     
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  3. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    Mooseman; Thank you for reply

    What i meant by "you would find in the bottom of a marsh"
    the oil was thick and had clumps in it as if it had not been changed in a long time.
    But this vehicle had always been taking to a oil service shop from being bought new, and to find this when i pulled the drain plug was unexpected.
    No evidence of moister / water in the oil.
    No metal fragments evidance either, motor runs great just the issue of loss oil pressure.

    The pickup blockage you mentioned, oil sump screen is what i believe the problem is. I will look at the links in your reply for a manual to do the pan removal in the frame.

    Thank you kindly.
     
  4. MaddmannDA

    MaddmannDA Member

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    I have a Turbo Shelby CSX that had the same muck in the bottom of the pan...looked like gravy that coagulated in the fridge. It wasn't milky like water/oil mix I've seen...I purchased the car with most of engine apart so I don't know history, but rest of engine looks great...no ridge or marks on cylinder wall, etc.
    I am also curious what could cause that...maybe an additive?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2017
  5. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Pan removal is no trivial thing although the lack of 4x4 components makes it easier somewhat.
    How to remove I6 oil pan in vehicle

    Before doing that, I'd do an oil change and run some flush. Another oil change and check the real oil pressure.
     
  6. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    Mooseman; Thank you for the information
    Here is an update with pics if it will allow me to share them.

    Followed the directions to T, after getting it jacked up and on stands it took me about 1.5 hours to have the pan on the ground.

    Found exactly what I expected to find, oil Sump screen 3/4 blocked off.
    The pan has about a 1/4" of stuck together sludge, still there even from the previous attempts of cleaning it out with a cleaning solution and air sprayer to wash it out through the drain plug. Again thank you very much for your assistance it is greatly appreciated.


    Wes 1.jpg 2pan.jpg 3block.jpg 5.jpg .
    Going to have to wash every thing on the lower end now I can see it..
    Just hope upper side doesn't have such a surprise for me in the future.
     
  7. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    In my situation this was lack of actually changing the oil, but instead screwing on a new filter and saying it was good to go.

    This is the only reason I see that my engine was in the condition it was in after getting oil pan dropped off.

    This is my wife's vehicle and she took to local quick oil change shop for the life of the vehicle it has around 82000 miles on it and she was stickler on getting it serviced, by all rights it should not be in this condition.
     
  8. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    The Most Reliable Solvent you can use...is to spray down one, small section at a time with THIS Stuff.... GM Top Engine Cleaner:

    Look here at Post #75 and #76 to see what this stuff does... "The Before vs. The After":

    http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads...-gm-atlas-4-2l-motor.15786/page-2#post-523873
    [​IMG]
    This Stuff will De-Varnish and De-Carbonize those areas...as long as you don't overdo it and keep a Drip Pan, Full Face Shield and a Fan moving Fresh Air around you so you don't suffocate from the Fumes... Don't attempt this in a Closed Garage. This stuff is miraculous... and nothing else even comes close to 2nd Place. It will take 3-4 Cans to do the entire Bottom End, the Front of the engine under the Front Cover and the Engine Head.... and SPRAY THE HELL OUT OF THE OIL PAN AND WATCH THAT BLACK "MUNG" DISSOLVE AWAY!

    Then you must do at LEAST two Oil and Oil Filter Changes with inexpensive oil to flush out this stuff. You should consider doing an Engine Oil Flush (One Quart of Flush with the Oil... run the engine for ONLY FIVE MINUTES WHILE IDLING... THEN DRAIN THE OIL AND CHANGE THE OUT THE OIL AND OIL FILTER TO THE 2nd BATCH OF INEXPENSIVE OIL.. THEN CHANGE THAT OIL AND OIL FILTER AFTER ONE WEEK... And Last But Not Least:

    Use Mobil1 and Mobil1 Oil Filters...
    Change BOTH Every 1,500 Miles Xs 2
    After THAT Then... Change BOTH Every 3,000 Miles... Forever...

    https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-1052626-Engine-Injector-Cleaner/dp/B000QII698?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000QII698
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  9. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    Wow thanks MRRSM,
    I will definitely look into getting some of this to cleaner up, was thinking like berrymans but this looks as if it will do the job.

    Thanks Wes
     
  10. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    And don't forget to clean the CPAS as it's probably as plugged up as the pickup. I'd also run flush with the new oil (after confirming good oil pressure), drain and refill with a good quality synth oil and filter.
     
  11. Steve A

    Steve A Well-Known Member

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    Once you are done with the cleaning and the flush, let me know if you want oil... I am the local AMSOIL Dealer on the Forum.

    Steve
     
  12. djthumper

    djthumper Administrator

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    Did not realize that we had a preferred deal that the site used...
     
  13. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    Could you explain please ?
     
  14. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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  15. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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  16. jsheahawk

    jsheahawk Well-Known Member

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    Ha!
     
  17. HARDTRAILZ

    HARDTRAILZ Moderator

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    Not an Amsoil fanboy myself, esp after listening to the BS pitch to become one of the "dealers" that you just give them money to become. However if you really like their products and want to use their products, it costs you under $50. It takes virtually nothing to be a "dealer", but then you can make money off other enthusiasts!
    • Buy AMSOIL products at the lowest possible prices
    • Minimal startup fee
    • No inventory requirements
    • No capital investment
    • No employee expenses or requirements
     
  18. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    As you clean up the Crankcase-Oil-Pan and Front Timing Chain Cover (it will also need a New Crankshaft Seal replaced, too) use Lacquer Thinner as a Solvent to clean off all of the Mating Metal Surfaces. Also, extra effort will need be needed to ensure that the Old OEM AC-Delco Engine Sealant gets thoroughly scraped cleaned out of all the Alignment Grooves on every Cover and Case Flange Surface. The AC-Delco Sealant is available via Amazon at the link below and no other RTV will work as well or last as long.

    Ordinarily... this stuff would be applied to the Engine Block when it is inverted and on an Engine Stand... but since you will be working "Upside Down" to re-install the Crankcase from underneath the SUV... it will be more easily managed if you apply the stuff to the Crankcase Flange first. Follow the application instructions in the Manual to encircle the bolt holes and use a bead that is neither too thin nor too thick.

    Be prepared to get the Crankcase quickly aligned with a few bolts at each of the four corners and press it in place for alignment and run the rest of the bolts down uniformly in order to "put the squeeze on the Goo". Avoid trying to use the Ratchet and Socket to Tighten Down individual Bolts or you risk cracking by Mal-adjusting the Case Mount alignment or damaging the Mount Holes in the Engine Block. Its important to have the Engine Block Flange Surfaces just as clean with some wiping with Lacquer Thinner and ensure that your Tools and Fasteners are ready in an organized manner because ...you will only have about (15) Minutes of working time before the RTV solidifies.

    https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-2...rd_wg=mjRnk&psc=1&refRID=NX7X5N21FHNVBY1S4S4W
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Steve A

    Steve A Well-Known Member

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    Many of my customers have come from the Old site and this site... And now you know.

    To be fair, I have been gone for the past 2 years on an overseas deployment. That's why there was no activity on the boards...
     
  20. djthumper

    djthumper Administrator

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    My point is there are a number of you guys on the site and the old site. You may have a number of members that buy from you but there have been no preferred dealers recognized by the site and staff.
     
  21. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    Update :

    I want to thank all theat has passed on your knowledge.

    I managed to get the pam pff and cleaned up took awhile to clean out the lower end of the black but had it looking pretty nice, so I re-assembled it.

    Started the engine and all was working wonderfully in the shop had apx 50 lbs oil pressure no lifter pecking and no rod noises.

    Completed putting all frame work up and test drove, 20 minutes into the drive, my heart fell ... oil pressure zeroed out again but this time it fluctuates up and down then finally zeroed, Immediately killed the engine let set few minutes, started back up 50 lbs. started driving again and oil pressure zeroed again i let it set there at stop and listed for engine noise after a minute or so it was evident there was no oil pressure as i started getting engine noise, lifter started clicking so i shut down engine let set for about 5 minutes, started up and was able to make back to shop.

    Im am thinking .. possibly the oil pump needs replaced, that maybe the bypass with all the gunk i had is fubarred or after looking at the pump in a picture which looks like a front pump on a automatic transmission is scarred and not holding the pressure.

    Could anyone point me to the removal procedure of the oil pump on this unit , I would appreciate it greatly.

    Wes
     
  22. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    That really sucks big time because you'll have to pull the oil pan again. The oil pump is in the front timing chain cover and to get it off, the oil pan has to come off. Been there when I replaced the timing chain and tensioner.
     
  23. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    I was afraid that would be the case, Its the oil sump screen bolt , it comes in from below, uuuugg

    Could you point me to the front cover / oil pump removal procedure.
     
  24. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    But of course!
    How to replace I6 timing chain and tensioner

    You can skip the stuff for the top side like the intake manifold and valve cover unless you also plan on replacing the timing chain. I would replace the tensioner as that has been known to fail on occasion.

    It does sound like the pressure relief valve is borked. Hindsight being 20/20, I would have also replaced the pump at the same time just to eliminate that possibility.
     
  25. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Wes.. I recently added some new images to my Photobucket of this very repair that might prove useful, These show where the Gerotor Oil Pump resides in the base of the lower inside section of the Front Timing Cover ... just as it is being removed, I'll be doing an 'autopsy' of the old OEM GM Pump by taking it off of the case over the next few days and installing a new oil pump from "Sealed Power". I'll add those to the ones in the below listed link just as soon as the work is done:

    http://s557.photobucket.com/user/60...NEREPAIR/HARMONICBALANCEREMOVAL?sort=3&page=1
     
  26. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    Thank you kindly , I looked at some images and I def do not see away to do this without pulling the pan again, well at least all the bolts are freshly broken loose, only good point is see :smile:.

    I appreciate the help tremendously.
    Wes
     
  27. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    No problem... Brother... We're all in the same Boat when it come right down to it... Glad to offer you the Help...

    And I would also suggest that you search around for others who have done similar work. Mine of late just happens to echo almost exactly what you need to know right now... and looking through what I have extensively documented and peppered with lengthy instructions will make some things a lot easier for you...and answer a lot of your questions all at once. (... but do try not to fall asleep when reading my Lengthy Tome...LOL).

    I try to get as comprehensive as possible because of an obligation to serve more than one present Lurker, Future Member... and with all the questions answered ... it can help brings repairs to a speedy conclusion. So please ...have a look at this link and see what you find that will assist you further...probably around Post # 80 -> and it will steer you away from trouble:

    http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/engine-swap-2004-for-2002-gm-atlas-4-2l-motor.15786/

    EDIT:

    I was thinking about the idea that since you have already been inside this engine once that there might be a temptation to re-use the Seals and the Crankshaft TTY Bolt... and doing so would present some very real danger. The replacement bolt is around $10.00 from gmpartsdirect.com and the idea is to remember how much force was being applied AFTER it experienced the preliminary tightening of 110 Foot Pounds///it then has to be tortured into tightening up an additional 180 Degrees... which winds up beings closer to 700 Foot Pounds using a 22 MM Impact Socket...the Biggest Breaker Bar you have ...and 2" X 3' length of Galvanized Pipe as the means to coax it into turning. Once it is removed...it makes a Good Paper Weight.

    And by the way... even though that Damned Crankshaft Bolt is a TTY... you don't need a Torque Angle Meter to squeeze down in between the engine and the Radiator... Just after you perform the initial tightening...(110 FPs and STOP) take a Permanent White Oil Paint Pen and Draw a Straight Vertical Line across the face of the bolt and let the mark extend onto the Front Timing Chain Cover as a Reference Point (avoid using the H-B Arms, as all three are exactly 120 Degrees apart) and slowly apply the last torque and keep checking with a Mirror to observe that line on the Face of the bolt until it inverts 180 Degrees and re-lines up again Arrow straight... Yer Dunn!

    This evening... the Timing Cover Gasket Kit arrived to ensure that when I R&R the Gerotor Oil Pump from the Front of the Timing Chain Cover... that I have ALL NEW GASKETS to install... INSIDE AND OUT:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017 at 10:27 PM
  28. wes112565

    wes112565 Member

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    MRRSM,

    Thank you for the information as i am new to this particular engine design.
    I'm use to the old 350 Chevy and 351 W Fords.

    Been a day or so since i actually worked on an engine.

    So you are basically saying the Harmonic Balancer bolt is a throw away once it is removed, I would not have known this and would have attempted to reuse.

    I would have never dreamed this, thank you again for the great information, what does the abbreviation "TTY" actually mean?

    I have already ordered a oil pump kit and front cover gasket set, will be adding a Harmonic Balancer bolt tomorrow.

    Thanks Wes
     
  29. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    That's Torque To Yield. Basically they are stretched to apply proper clamping pressure, which is why they have to be replaced.

    I didn't replace mine in either engine (4.2 and 5.3) and the engine didn't explode :biggrin:
     
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