Tune questions....

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
Mounce said:
:confused: I've been over 100 with no tune.

Capote said:
Was going 112 two weeks ago in Augusta :undecided:
Any "cheats?" My '88 Accord had a hard-limit at 90, even with it being carbureted. I was able to dupe it by going downhill, hit 100 in that thing only once, but man was that little 98HP motor screaming (final gear was 1:1, tach read about 4000). Also if purchased used, what are the odds a P.O. didn't have some modifications done? Seems plenty of people get tunes, enthusiast or not. Plenty of brotruck "coal rollers" around here getting their diesel ECUs reprogrammed to dump extra fuel explicitly to make black smoke.

A set of CAL ID references with CVNs may show alterations.
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
Alright, I've done some looking around, apparently SWBs had it generally set ~115 range, while LWB had it set ~100 range.

I still don't condone this kind of stuff off the truck. My philosophy, after being out of high school only 2-3 years, has been "if you make time for it, you won't have to speed for it."
 
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Mounce

Member
Mar 29, 2014
13,667
Tuscaloosa, AL
No "cheats" when I did it, it was a pretty straight and flat stretch, the motor wasn't really calm and happy though and that was definitely the hardest I'd ever pushed it and haven't since. I've resigned to taking it easy with it and only pushing it if I need to. No guarantees that it wasn't tuned by the couple PO's but if they did tune it, they sure didn't improve the factory tune lol.

Nice of you to do the research for us though :thumbsup: :tiphat:
 

Capote

Supporting Donor
Member
Jul 14, 2014
24,227
Atlanta, GA
IllogicTC said:
Any "cheats?" My '88 Accord had a hard-limit at 90, even with it being carbureted. I was able to dupe it by going downhill, hit 100 in that thing only once, but man was that little 98HP motor screaming (final gear was 1:1, tach read about 4000). Also if purchased used, what are the odds a P.O. didn't have some modifications done? Seems plenty of people get tunes, enthusiast or not. Plenty of brotruck "coal rollers" around here getting their diesel ECUs reprogrammed to dump extra fuel explicitly to make black smoke.

A set of CAL ID references with CVNs may show alterations.
Nope no cheats, just a nice long ass straight away on a 4 lane highway. Blew by some ricer kid and made him all butthurt
 
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C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
KNBlazer said:
Lime vs PCM4Less vs PCMofNC

why go with one over the other...RRRRRREADY DISCUSS!!!! :biggrin:
Price was another big factor in my decision, besides being able to drive over and talk to Jeremy face to face. Lime is $100 for a ship tune / in-person tune, or $200 for a driving tune with him in the vehicle with you. This option kind of requires you to go to him.
 
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Royalwapiti

Member
Jul 16, 2012
82
Is there a link that explains the pros and cons of each setting for a tune?

I am considering one. But do not know what a Shift Management of 2 means compared to 1, I pull a 600lb aluminum trailer with a 600 pound ATV on it. I do not know what pros and cons of setting it up with 87 octane or 89. I usually use 87 with 10% ethanol.

And I see all the options for fans, I am not sure if my fan is a problem, it races louder at start up and periodicallly at city driving, If I add the 2008 fan clutch later and get rid of the EV Clutch will I need another tune?
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,319
Ottawa, ON
I don't think there is a single link to answers to your questions. Some could be answered by the tuner (PCMofNC or whoever), some we can try and answer here.

I think you mean shift firmness. For that, level 2 would just firm up the shifts a little without being harsh. Has nothing to do with towing. If you mean torque management, that is something you might want to discuss with the tuner. If I were to redo my tune, I would have removed torque management altogether and control my right foot while towing.

I would leave the octane for 87 as there has not been any real advantage to anyone going to a higher octane.

Even though your fan is working correctly now, I would have the fan error codes disabled to give you the option later to go to a 2008 fan clutch. It will continue to work with your current fan clutch, just the codes are disabled. Anyway, I have not heard of anybody that has had a fan failure get an error code so you won't miss them.
 
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littleblazer

Original poster
Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
Question, does anyone know the average turn around for the mail order tune alone, I'm thinking about sending it out this week.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,680
Tampa Bay Area, FL
PCMofNC usually sends them back next day delivery. Flashing the tune takes a few minutes, start to finish, so it's a matter of what method you ship to them with, what time of day they receive it, and how much work they have in the queue. From all cases I've heard, they ship them back out the next day at the longest. You can always email them and double check. They are a very friendly staff to work with.
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
littleblazer said:
Question, does anyone know the average turn around for the mail order tune alone, I'm thinking about sending it out this week.
My tune was complete and back in the hands of UPS within 24 hours. Mail-in PCM tunes take priority. They know your vehicle is down waiting for the PCM to return.

The shipping and return shipping speed is all on you. I did one day shipping down and one day shipping back. $80 in shipping costs and about three days turnaround time total.
 

smt 59

Member
I had a performance tune done on my truck without removing the PCM, all done via laptop at a performance shop just about an hour away,all the said improvements where done and no regrets at all, I go for my emissions test next month.
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
littleblazer said:
Question, does anyone know the average turn around for the mail order tune alone, I'm thinking about sending it out this week.
I normally ship the day after receiving the PCM. Return shipping is USPS priority and is included in the $99. I also offer a free loaner service for no downtime. Most MYs are in stock.

http://www.lime-swap.com/tune
 

Royalwapiti

Member
Jul 16, 2012
82
I pulled the trigger on a PCM of NC tune this morning, then had grave misgivings. I absolutely need my TB on Monday night for a 3 week hunting vacation in Arizona. I have no doubt they could have gotten it back to me by Friday, but I would have been charged $80 for overnight express via UPS, so i opted for Second Day Air at $34. I was going to ship it to them for $40 from USPS Overnight. There was not enough time, too much $ involved with shipping and one little misfortune on the part of a delivery person, the tuner guy or his shipping clerk and I was going to be sitting home on Monday with no wheels. Also no Saturday delivery.

My elk tag took 9 years to draw, I am not missing a single minute of season. So i will do the tune when I get back. My TB never gets driven in the summer/fall or spring. It can easily sit for a month between uses then, it is my wife's winter vehicle. So I can go with standard ground shipping to and from and not spend $120 on just shipping.

Not the Fault of PCMofNC I just waited too long to learn about this and try to get it done before my trip.
 

Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
568
To fill in some info here... I originally got my tune from PCM4less. I must be the only person to have ever gotten the shift firmness level 1. This is my daily driver, plus my wife has back injuries so I can't go too aggressive with it. I have also towed a 5500# trailer up the mountain, so they left in some of the torque management. I opted to keep my original PCM, and buy the unit they sent me, however I never had a reason to put the original PCM back in the vehicle.

A couple years later I bought HPTuners so I could really dig into it (and for all the things I've changed and would have required a re-tune, I've probably broken even on the cost). From my original stock tune file... RPM cutoff is 5100 while parked, or 6300 while moving. Speed limiter is set to 104mph. I have a 2004 TB LT SWB.

The original tune made a very noticable difference for me, especially in the shifting. With the stock tune, I had to manually shift when merging on the highway to prevent early upshifts that killed my accelleration. The tuned PCM had me shifting almost exactly where I would manually shift at, so I didn't need to keep my hind on the shifter all the time. Even at a firmess of 1, there was a difference... crisper and faster shifting without jerking... perfect for a daily driver. The ONLY issue I ever had with the new tune was while driving in construction traffic. The 1-2 shift at times would practically launch me forward, and prompted me to spring for HPTuners so I could make my own adjustments.

One thing to consider when picking your shift firmness is what gears you have. I'm betting nearly everyone who opted for the level 2 or 3 firmness is running 3.42 gears (or much larger tires). Last Fall I swapped my 3.42 gears for a set of 4.10s, and I immediately had to return the firmess back to the stock levels (note here there are two different tables, one controls firmness, the other controls shift speed -- I still have a fast speed set, but no additional firmness). With the additional firmness and the 4.10 gears, I was actually squeeking the tires on all three shifts on the highway, and in 4LO the 1-2 shift was so hard it felt like the transmission was going to tear itself out. The point of all this is that there will be a difference in the apparent firmness depending on what gears you have.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to go back to a stock tune, the vehicle simply drives much better with the custom programming. If you are trying to decide whether to buy an extra PCM, the only question should be "what will you do with it?" I keep mine on a shelf as an emergency backup. The only time I ever kept it in the truck was when the dealership was trying to reprogram my PCM for the gear change, and we weren't certain of the effects.
 
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IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
limequat said:
I normally ship the day after receiving the PCM. Return shipping is USPS priority and is included in the $99. I also offer a free loaner service for no downtime. Most MYs are in stock.

http://www.lime-swap.com/tune
I like Limequat's site, he offers tunes and also offers some parts! I know PCMofNC offers a good assortment too, but Jeremy has the A.I.R. solenoid blockoff plate and an adapter to fit an actual oil pressure sender unit, which is pretty cool.
 
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Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
568
IllogicTC said:
I like Limequat's site, he offers tunes and also offers some parts! I know PCMofNC offers a good assortment too, but Jeremy has the A.I.R. solenoid blockoff plate and an adapter to fit an actual oil pressure sender unit, which is pretty cool.
OK this is probably a stupid question, but I gotta ask... If you fit a real pressure sensor, does the dash gauge actually do something, or is this for adding an external gauge?
 

Texan

Member
Jan 14, 2014
622
Interesting question. I believe it is for a external gauge. If you dig back a few months you will
find some interesting threads about this subject.
 

Royalwapiti

Member
Jul 16, 2012
82
IllogicTC said:
I like Limequat's site, he offers tunes and also offers some parts! I know PCMofNC offers a good assortment too, but Jeremy has the A.I.R. solenoid blockoff plate and an adapter to fit an actual oil pressure sender unit, which is pretty cool.
So do I, Thanks IllogicTC for pointing that out. Jeremy is over-nighting me a PCM tomorrow to install for my trip next week. I will send mine back for programming and then return this one. Simple and very economical!

Now if I can figure out how to tell the dealer what a Case relearn is... earlier today when I asked about it I got the deer in the headlights look. I don't like that look from my automotive service advisor! It got worse when I said no reprogramming, just a case relearn. Unfortunately at this point that is all I know about it! LOL Time to Research.
 
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Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
568
I got that same look when I took mine in for a case relearn. Try mentioning "crankshaft position sensor relearn", that may help them figure it out. From what I understand, it is basically a procedure where you put the PCM in a certain mode, then rev the engine to max RPMs for a given number of seconds... and that's it. And of course they will want to charge you at least an hour of labor for this complicated procedure.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,319
Ottawa, ON
It's not complicated, did it myself with a borrowed Tech2, took all of 10 minutes.

And instead of "no reprogramming", try to say "no updating".
 

Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
568
Actually HPTuners has the option too, but I haven't tried it yet. Wish HPT gave a way to read the current value so I could see if the dealership actually did the update, or if they just charged me to let me truck sit around for a few hours.
 

KNBlazer

Member
Feb 8, 2012
811
Royalwapiti said:
So do I, Thanks IllogicTC for pointing that out. Jeremy is over-nighting me a PCM tomorrow to install for my trip next week. I will send mine back for programming and then return this one. Simple and very economical!

Now if I can figure out how to tell the dealer what a Case relearn is... earlier today when I asked about it I got the deer in the headlights look. I don't like that look from my automotive service advisor! It got worse when I said no reprogramming, just a case relearn. Unfortunately at this point that is all I know about it! LOL Time to Research.
Geezus... not as bad as when I called a GMC dealer to get a quote for a PCM Flash... he asked me, huh, what exactly are you trying to do? I said update my trucks computer... he asked for what... I said umm cuz I'm having problems... he said you need to have it diagnosed... I said, I already know what my problem is, the latest update will solve my issues.... he puts me on hold, and I hear in the background, I have a customer asking about a PCM Flash, I swear he asked 2 other people there... finally he gave me a WRONG quote of 55 dollars for a PCM Tune... I called back recently and they actually charge 120... ...
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
Shdwdrgn said:
OK this is probably a stupid question, but I gotta ask... If you fit a real pressure sensor, does the dash gauge actually do something, or is this for adding an external gauge?
Sorry no. The adatper is more for guys that need a tap for a turbo.
 

Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
568
limequat said:
Sorry no. The adatper is more for guys that need a tap for a turbo.
Yeah I figured as much, but one can continue to hope...
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
IllogicTC said:
But... in theory... COULD it be used to finagle an external gauge?
Oh, for sure. That's how I hooked up the oil pressure gauge in my supra. The problem is the cluster. The stock gauge is driven by a PCM signal which means nothing. Aftermarket gauge, no problem.
 

Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
568
Yeah if only we had an open operating system, it would be a simple matter to get in there and change the programming to display actual values...

Come on GM, work with us here! </wishful_thinking>
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
limequat said:
Oh, for sure. That's how I hooked up the oil pressure gauge in my supra. The problem is the cluster. The stock gauge is driven by a PCM signal which means nothing. Aftermarket gauge, no problem.
Unless someone wanted to take the time to figure out how to have the oil gauge in place but not connected to the cluster circuitry, then figuring up the logic to read the oil sender and run a stepper motor based on that. :rotfl:
 

24v 4.2

Member
Jan 16, 2013
430
I went in and had the dealer do a transmission flush and convinced the service manager to throw in the case relearn for free
 
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Royalwapiti

Member
Jul 16, 2012
82
Loaner PCM came in the mail today. Came with a big ol Lime on the box. I just had my TB at the dealer getting the Case relearn, $55. Not bad. I was going to borrow it but may well leave it in and just send mine back. Will see if I want any tweaks to it after a 3200 mile trip. Went with Shift firmness 1, 25% torque management.

Noticeable power increase, firmer shift. In a 30 mile drive that's about all I noticed. Hoping I will see more MPG at the next fill up. I spoke with a couple "old" ladies at the dealer today who drive the 4.2L TB. ( they work there) The more verbal one has a 2002 since it was new. She uses the highest octane fuel (93 around here) she can find that is alcohol free and she gets 21mpg on highway trips from Iowa to North Carolina. I couldn't imagine...highest I remember getting ever was 17.

I am trying the alcohol free fuel now (87 octane) and will use the high octane stuff on my trip to AZ. We will see if the Tune, plugs, O2 sensor and these fuel changes improve from my 13mpg.

Lime-Swap was a little more flexible and his shipping is cheaper using the USPS.
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
Back in my day, it was only the 89 that came with ethanol. And 89 was 10 cents cheaper than 87 because of it.
 

Royalwapiti

Member
Jul 16, 2012
82
IllogicTC said:
Back in my day, it was only the 89 that came with ethanol. And 89 was 10 cents cheaper than 87 because of it.
I was living your day until a few months ago. It was like that in Iowa until very recently, now some stations have all three grades with ethanol. For many years we had 87 straight unleaded no ethanol, 89 with ethanol, and 93 no ethanol. It would be priced something like, 89 $3.10, 87 $3.20, 93 $3.50

Gulp! my small engines are going to choke and die!
 

littleblazer

Original poster
Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
IllogicTC said:
Unless someone wanted to take the time to figure out how to have the oil gauge in place but not connected to the cluster circuitry, then figuring up the logic to read the oil sender and run a stepper motor based on that. :rotfl:
Well... couldn't one simply hack out the stepper motor and mount a pressure driven gauge in the cluster utlizing the old needle and markings, sure it wouldn't read exact but you could probably get it pretty close. :undecided:
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
littleblazer said:
Well... couldn't one simply hack out the stepper motor and mount a pressure driven gauge in the cluster utlizing the old needle and markings, sure it wouldn't read exact but you could probably get it pretty close. :undecided:
But the idea is to keep the cluster looking exactly the same.
 

Shdwdrgn

Member
Dec 4, 2011
568
Visually that would look the same, there would be no outside indication that the oil gauge wasn't stock, except that when in operation the needle would actually change with RPM.
 

littleblazer

Original poster
Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
Shdwdrgn said:
Visually that would look the same, there would be no outside indication that the oil gauge wasn't stock, except that when in operation the needle would actually change with RPM.
so its possible? I was just thinking aloud, but if you could get a gauge that the needle moves in the same arc length (markings line up for 80, 40, and 0) then i suppose as there isn't too much to hack apart it can be done. what is it three wires? just run the harness up to the cluster instead of a remote mount. I believe most gauges with replaceable needles have similar sized pins to hold the needle, a little glue, then zeroing the gauge out with the zero mark, could yield decent results... or just totally destroy a perfectly well working instrument cluster. :tongue:
 

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