Tricks to freeing stuck bleeders

[Mark20]

While flushing the brake system on my wife's Pontiac one of the bleeders broke off. Long story short as I don't own the torx wrenches for the bolts GM uses to hold the wheel cylanders in so I just brought it to my mechnic. He said he had several tricks to free stuck bleeder valves and I'd like to see what you guys & gals come up with.

 

[Mooseman]

Heat from a torch. Short of that, maybe soaking with PB Blaster for a day or two might help. As a preventive measure, I put teflon tape on the threads.

 

[Mark20]

Next is the Envoy. Don't know if I'll have time for that this weekend. Plus the wife always yells at me for not doing what she wants me to get done. But that's a different thread!

Heat directly on the bleeder?

 

[Mooseman]

No, on the caliper itself all around but the bleeder will likely get red from the indirect heat. You want to expand the metal around the bleeder.

 

[n0kfb]

If the bleeder was stuck, I'd wonder about the condition of the rest of the caliper/piston assembly and just replace the whole thing.

Don't take any chances with critical safety systems!

-- Dan Meyer

 

[ieatglue]

Can I get the same heat from a propane torch used to solder copper pipes? I've already snapped a bleeder valve on the driver rear

 

[MAY03LT]

Can I get the same heat from a propane torch used to solder copper pipes? I've already snapped a bleeder valve on the driver rear

I haven't been able to get them hot enough with anything other then oxy/acetylene.

I also smack the top of the bleeder with a hammer when it's good and hot.

 

[Mooseman]

I just re-read your post and I'm assuming that you are dealing with drums on that car? The bleeders on those are typically small and break very easily. Even a propane torch might be enough to loosen it up enough to get it to release. As far as the safety factor, as long as the caliper/wheel cylinder is not leaking or binding, there should be no issue keeping it. Bleeders are exposed and tend to seize up but the inner workings are protected by rubber boots (if they are in good condition). Changing a wheel cylinder might actually become a bigger job as the hard line might also be seized and break when you try to remove it.

 

[ieatglue]

I don't think our trucks have hydraulic drum brakes, just the parking brake. I was referring to the rear caliper. The only downside is that I was looking to do a brake flush since it hasn't been done in about 4 years

 

[Mark20]

We ended up replacing the wheel cylinder. The Pontiac is drum rear brakes. Cylinder was pretty rusty on the outside but I didn't spot any internal leaks. Since its an independant suspension, there were just hoses running to the drums. If I had the right wrench it wouldn't have been a problem. After it snapped there was no leaking so it was still safe to drive but I wanted to get the whole system flushed. Stops like it just rolled off the assembly line.

I think you have to be careful heating the cylinder/caliper too much and destroying the temper.

 

[moneypit]

I too don't have acetylene torches I use mapp gas on my propane torch which burns hotter. I've had good results with it....

 

[C-ya]

Reviving an old thread. I broke my rear bleeders off when trying to flush the system. Sheared them off before they move one iota. Since they are not leaking and I didn't have brake trouble to begin with, I'm going to let them ride until I do need to do the brakes. I will try to get them out so so I don't have to replace the calipers. I'm going to go with panther piss, heat, and panther piss, repeat as needed, and try to use an easy out to get the pieces out.

 

[Mooseman]

You do know that you don't have to open the bleeders to push the pistons in, notwithstanding what the naysayers might tell you. There is nothing in GM repair literature that says to open the bleeders to prevent damage to the ABS.

 

[C-ya]

Oh yeah, I understand that. But it is pretty hard to flush your system with no bleeders!

 

[Mooseman]

As a matter of habit, I always use heat before even trying them as I never had any luck with them. Maybe you'll get lucky with the easy out tool.

 

[NJTB]

As Mooseman said, an acetylene torch with a small tip works well. Propane doesn't get hot enough. In my own experience, if the little rubber nipple is on the bleeder it seems they are less likely to seize in the caliper.

 

[glfredrick]

I never use heat on brake parts. Just boils the system and causes the internal rubber seals to burn up.

Spray with PB Blaster, tap with hammer (not hard, just to make the parts vibrate), then wait 15 minutes. Tap again, then USING THE CORRECT TOOL, slightly tighten the bleeder first, then it will generally pop loose.

If not, just change out the entire cylinder (drum brakes) or caliper (disk brakes) for if the parts are corroded to that level they are due for replacement anyway. Might also want to change the hoses and check the lines at that time as well.

Generally, if a part is THAT corroded then it is ready for the scrap heap and we must bear in mind that brake fluid also corrodes from the inside as it collects humidity from the atmosphere and will actually rust inside the system at about the same speed as it does the outside of the system. That is the reason that brake fluid is changed in the first place, for it really doesn't go bad, but it DOES collect moisture and that moisture is the death of any brake system!

 

[kickass audio]

My neighbor taught me and my dad a trick to the whole thing. Take the oxy/acetylene torch on a low setting and heat up the area around the bleeder valve. Then spray it with cold water. It seems like it cracks the rust free from the threads as when we removed it there was no rust on them and they were stuck. We also did this to the joint where the brake lines come together on the drivers side as I burned a hole through the rubber brake line when I was torching off my sway bar end links a few years ago and when we tried to undo that rubber hose the bolts on the other end were seized up solid and every time we tried to turn the pipe wrench on the brake line it would turn the brake line with it and start kinking it.

 

[Mooseman]

I never use heat on brake parts. Just boils the system and causes the internal rubber seals to burn up.

The bleeder is usually at the back of the caliper, away from the seals at the piston(s) and you heat only the immediate area around the bleeder. And as said by Kickass, you get it hot and throw some water on it so that will thermal shock it to release. Also, brakes get inherently hot from use. The piston is making direct contact with the pad which gets damned hot. I have never seen a burnt boot or piston seal. As for boiling the fluid, although possibly true, the reason you're trying to open the bleeder is to replace the fluid anyway so it's a moot point.

 

[kickass audio]

Exactly. You are heating it up to get it hot but not so hot that you are actually using the torch to start cutting through the caliper. lol. It isn't hard to do just don't go crazy with the torch. Brake fluid is flammable but I have never seen it burst into flames when I was heating up the joints to release them so use proper judgement. Any time I use the torch I always keep a few fire extinguishers, spray bottles filled with just water and ones that were NEVER used for any chemicals, and the garden hose to wet any parts down that may risk catching fire. You might be able to get the threads heated up enough with a mapp gas torch however it does burn quite a lot cooler than oxy/acetylene so you might not get all the rust and junk out of the bottom part of the threads that are deep into the caliper body. The whole point is to heat the surrounding area, the caliper so that the heat gets all around the bleeder valve so when you spray water on it it will then suck out the crap in the threads.

Someone will probably have a fit for this but if you know what you are doing you will be perfectly fine, I use my cutting torch for everything. I use that for actual cutting and for heating up the brake parts. It is not advised that you do what I do though because you can risk getting things too hot if you are not too clever with a torch and really screw things up. Plus keep your thumb away from the booster valve because the last thing you want to do is blast oxygen onto something you are just getting hot enough to get loose.

 

[ahabofthepequod]

You play the tip of the flame around the bleeder. Try not to heat the bleeder valve.
As far as a heat source, unless you are very experienced with an oxy-acet torch leave them alone.
A small bottle torch can be used but instead of propane (which does not give a lot of heat) use MAPP gas. It will give you a hotter flame..