Tires Rubbing?

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
Hello all, this will be my first post. I am sorry it is going to be filled with questions...

Ok, so here is the deal. This is on an 03 Envoy XL @140,000 miles, if I brake too fast and turn, then the tires rub. If I slow down a lot and there happens to be a small dip or incline in the turn, they will rub. It is my wife's vehicle and I just found out about it. By the time I checked it, the tires were rubbed/cut down to the steel belt.

We got the vehicle a few months ago in a pinch.Between work and kids, I didn't have much time to look at it this summer. Well it looks like I'll have to make time now. We live in Colorado and winter is closing in fast.

I started taking tires off and it looks like all the bushings are pretty much shot, including the sway bar mounts and linkage. It also appears nothing had been greased in a long time. I am not sure what the original shocks were, but it has Bilsteins on it, but they look factory. I can shake the whole vehicle 4''-5'' with one hand on the top of the door. Some of my questions are: could it be the UBJ mount rubbing? It is rubbing on the inside of the tire on the corner. There is nothing I can find that is close to the tire except this. Would it rubbing on the left tire, if I am turning right, basically pushing into the tire or would it be rubbing the right tire when turning right, pulling the tire into the UBJ?

I called the shop I use and the reply was- it could be the bearing, ball joints, shocks..there are so many possibilities, you'll have to bring it in. At that point I decided it was a job I needed to do at home because it sounded expensive. So here I am looking for advice.. anyone ever had this problem? Should I buckle down and replace the front end on both sides? I'm at a loss here and in desperate need of direction. Any advice is welcome, thank you in advance.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
What size are the tires?
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Welcome! Glad you found us.

Sounds like somebody upsized the tires and weren't members here or on offroadtb.com to know what sizes were safe, and what needed spacers for more clearance. Plus, larger tires often need a lift to make sure they don't rub or get cut on the top of the wheel well or the rear of the wheel well opening.

And worn control arm bushings lets the tire move around inside the space, and then all bets are off and the tire is going to be destroyed from not being in good alignment.

Do you see any shiny rubbed surfaces ANYWHERE in the wheel well?

In general, there should be at least 1/4" clearance between the upper ball joint mount and the tire. Yes, the tire will move sideways in a turn, but by the time the tire rotates 180 degrees, it snaps back into position and won't hit the UCA. But yours hits the UCA at rest?!? A real idiot put those tires on and didn't deal with the problem. Or else your wheel hub/bearings are ALSO shot and the tire isn't rotating in a good vertical plane (actually it's not vertical, due to the specified camber, but its close.)

I also have to wonder if the previous owner put on a lift and you have multiple problems.

Pics are essential so we can consult and advise you what you've just bought.

OEM suspension parts have no Zerks, so there's no greasing necessary. Aftermarket parts may or may not have grease fittings.

Do you know ANYTHING about the previous owner and its maintenance history?

Have you checked out the 4WD system to at least make sure it's functional and the splined disconnect on the passenger side of the oil pan works? Without servicing the transfer case every 50K RELIGIOUSLY, you may also have a dead or dying transfer case. How about the other 100K maintenance on ALL FLUIDS and spark plugs?

I predict a long and expensive repair process on this abused truck, even if you do most of the work yourself.
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
245/65R17 , I checked that out first thing. I thought dang it, someone changed the tire size, but didn't lift it. Of course it wouldn't be that easy. That is just not my luck.
 

RayGumm

Member
Apr 16, 2014
630
Pics! What about Roadie's maintenance questions or looking for anything that was clearly rubbed and shiny..?

We are here to help!

Welcome to the Nation, BTW! :tiphat:
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
I have checked the 4wd system and it is functional, I am going to be replacing fluids shortly.

I do not know the history of this vehicle and I did not have the money to dump into it when we first got it. Usually any used vehicle I get, goes straight in the shop.

I can not find any rub marks what so ever. On the passenger side it looked like the dirt had been rubbed away on the underside of the UBJ. Nothing I can find on the driver side, yet the driver side is rubbing worse. I do not see any type of lift, everything looks stock. The tires do not contact when the vehicle is at rest only when slowing down and turning. If you turn without slowing down, then no problems.

How do I check the splined disconnect?

I will agree with the last statement Roadie made!! :frown:

Sorry if the post seems all over the place, I am trying to answer all of the questions, but it may not be in the order you ask.
 

RayGumm

Member
Apr 16, 2014
630
LostInSpace278 said:
I am at work, so pics will have to wait a bit.
No worries, man.

Beauty of the internet-it will wait for you. just be sure to follow up at some point.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Loose tie rods and seriously shot hubs will allow for some decent movement of tires.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
My first advice would be to jack it up and see which way the tires are moving. Grab each side and shake, Grab top and bottom and shake. Give them a good spin and listen for the bearing in the hubs.
 
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The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
I had loose bolts once holding the lower control arm in after a very rough trail ride. Easy to see the tire hitting the wheel well in reverse or forward if you stop right away if you hear or feel rubbing in a parking lot. In your case the movement may be only during braking, but definitely take a socket to the lower control arm bracket mounting bolts (3).

The splined disconnect is engaged by the front axle actuator, and if it's dead you won't have any 4WD behavior, such as driveline binding in a paved parking lot during low speed turns.
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
Jack it up, shake the tire, then try tightening the LCA bracket bolts.

Never thought of those. I am used to every bolt on a vehicle being seized up.
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
I didn't have time to jack it up, but I did get a few pics. If you want pics of a specific area, just let me know. I'll jack it up first thing in the morning.

As you can see, the bushings are shot. I greased the bushings last weekend, while I also had a look around. As I was putting grease in the upper ball joint bushing, it was oozing out the back. All of these pics are from the passenger side. I took them while my kids were in dance class and did not have enough room on the drivers side. I love how some people park!

Shot bushing
20140814_172959.jpg
Sway bar linkage
20140814_173012.jpg
Lower ball joint area
20140814_173021.jpg
Frame mounted sway bar bushing is shot. On the drivers side, there is at least 1/16'' gap between the top of the sway bar and bushing
20140814_173041.jpg
Front upper control arm bushing. look at that gap!
20140814_173107.jpg
And finally, you can see what it has done to the tire
20140814_173233.jpg
 

Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,019
Those shocks are OEM Bilsteins. With 140,000 on the truck, the shocks were shot about 120,000 miles ago. Buy the Bilstein HD shocks for it and it should help with the bounce as well as replacing the other worn parts.
 

Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,019
Yeah, they are "made for" shocks. Bilstein makes them to GM spec, so not their best effort.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Does not look to be rubbing, just worn on the tires. I would suspect what you think is tire rub is one of the other worn parts. The worn out part have the tires trashed because the alignment is nonexistent.
 

Mark20

Member
Dec 6, 2011
1,630
Welcome to the Nation!
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
Thank you Mark!


HARDTRAILZ said:
Does not look to be rubbing, just worn on the tires. I would suspect what you think is tire rub is one of the other worn parts. The worn out part have the tires trashed because the alignment is nonexistent.
I figured if the alignment was that bad, you would feel it in the steering wheel or shaking when you brake.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Nope.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Your tires are nowhere near rubbing on the upper ball joint. 1/16" gap on an anti-sway bar mount bushing isn't really that bad - at least it's intact and not falling out in chunks. Kyle's right on - your lower control arm may be letting the tire go way out on camber and caster, but the appearance of the tire is purely from misalignment wear.

Assume you stay on top of tire pressure, which costs nothing to keep in spec?

Anyway, those tires are a hazard to your family and others on the road, so you're right to be scheduling a major fixup.
 
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LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
I do stay on top of the air pressure. I learned a long time ago, that the bigger the tire, the more concerned with air pressure you should be. Nothing like dropping $1000 on tires that wear out prematurely because I didn't keep them properly inflated.

On to the next set of questions. Should I just bite the bullet and replace the upper and lower control arms, shocks, wheel bearing/hub assembly, sway bar linkage, and frame mounted sway bar bushings? I am not sure what the piece is called that has the upper ball joint pressed into it. I am looking online and I don't even see where I can buy it.

Or should I attempt to have alignment done and wait to see what they say needs to be fixed?
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Depends now much money you want to spend.

I replace broken parts but you could just do it all.
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
You're right. I am jumping the gun. Tomorrow morning I will jack it up and start with shaking the wheels, spinning the wheels and listening to the bearings, put a wrench on the LCA mounting bolts. Anything else you guys suggest I do, while it is up? Any other pictures?
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Seems like you got it pretty well in hand. Its not a super complicated setup and its obvious you have some deferred maintenance. Seems you are knowledgeable enough to find the problem areas or at least picture them so we can help you know what to order.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Shotgunning is for folks who have run out of time, tools, or talent to do a proper diagnostic job. I'm certain you're better-equipped than that. :wink:

Ball joint testing has its own technique that's easy to learn at Youtube. But it can't be done right while the wheels are hanging in the air because they're being preloaded the wrong way.
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
HARDTRAILZ said:
its obvious you have some deferred maintenance.

I like the terminology, can I use this quote in the future?

How do you check ball joints? Do you check for "slop" or "play" when moving them? NM I just read the post Roadie put up. Isn't youtube great?!
 
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LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
The_Roadie said:
Shotgunning is for folks who have run out of time, tools, or talent to do a proper diagnostic job. I'm certain you're better-equipped than that. :wink:
I have time and tools, not sure about the talent. I owned a SAAB 9-5 for awhile. Let's just say it was cheaper to become knowledgeable than to let an "import expert" fix it. :no:
 

LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
So I went out this morning, I checked everything except the lower ball joint. With enough force I could get the tires to move from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock, but that was the axle sliding in out a bit. So I am heading out to get 2 new tires, that may wear a little before I get the new shocks on and an alignment done. I just can't let my family ride around the tires the way they are.

Ok, help me out, where is a reputable place to buy Bilstein HD shocks for a decent price?

Thanks again guys/gals!
 

Matt

Member
Dec 2, 2011
4,019
Shockwarehouse.com are not bad at $65.70 each with free shipping, but I got mine from Summit because I live around the corner from them and they used be the same price...not any more.
 
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LostInSpace278

Original poster
Member
Aug 14, 2014
16
Thank you Matt, the ones I found were @ $10 higher and I still had to pay shipping. Nice find, thank you again.
 
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