Steering wheel doesn't steer

DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
I heard a loud pop pulling out of a parking spot, then this occurred. As I drive, I hear what seems to be gears not gearing, with clockwise rotation getting worse. I have no idea what to do or check, but P/S fluid looks good. Any suggestions or help?
-9Zm61rPXYpPvdTGzenlw75pVPe46t2Mru-u3rtn--B7qv2RVOy_wSRVt9E_JI30m6d5LqTfc7Wv=w1597-h898-no
 
Last edited:

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
The gears not meshing sounds like the rack and pinion is going down hill fast. Is the steering wheel hard to turn?
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
If @DJones doesn't have any steering problems or fluid leakage at rack and pinion and at both power steering lines and also reservoir. Than it can be his CV Axle pop and busted also about to come out of the inner CV axle housing or boot.

You're probably right. I was thrown off by the title of this thread.
 

DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
I examined it further yesterday, then tore most of it apart today. The steering wheel was sitting at about 210 degrees clockwise with straight wheels, after messing with it from the 90 degrees in the picture. It is a slipping steering gear, so I am going to get a replacement rack from a salvage yard either tomorrow or Saturday. Several are available locally, between $75 and $100. No power steering fluid has leaked.

Steering aside, my differential has been leaking for quite some time. I have the seal and it is fixable, but I don't need 4 wheel anymore, and with the age and mileage, I am thinking about draining it and forgetting it. I just don't know if the CV axle would be fine free wheeling until I pull it.
 

DIY Fixer

Member
Nov 10, 2015
104
Wisconsin
DJones if you drain all the oil in your front differential without filling it back up you are going to have a bunch of problems later on down the road. I would just replace the seal and fill it back up with very good brand oil.
 
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webdawg

Member
Jun 26, 2014
247
Steering aside, my differential has been leaking for quite some time. I have the seal and it is fixable, but I don't need 4 wheel anymore, and with the age and mileage, I am thinking about draining it and forgetting it. I just don't know if the CV axle would be fine free wheeling until I pull it.

Why would you let your differential destroy itself? What is your mileage? You would HAVE to pull the axles out. It would toast the bearings on the drivers side. It is easy to replace that drivers side seal, and there is a bearing behind it (after you unscrew the plate) that you could put JUST a new race on. The bearings are pressed on to the inner shaft.
 

DIY Fixer

Member
Nov 10, 2015
104
Wisconsin
Webdawg is there a video on how to do all these replacement parts. Back in the olden days there weren't that many seals on the front differential to replace which I seen on my old 99 GMC Jimmy Envoy. The front differential didn't even go through the oil pan at all. That differential look like this in the picture.
1CE2D8E9-8DBE-40F6-85AA-89C50C29433E-1051-0000010247177762.jpg

46BD9D52-A81B-4735-A141-80F189ABDF3A-1051-000001024E3790B2.jpg
 

DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
I've replaced the seal once before, it's just a little time consuming and I don't see any need for it. Last week, a spark plug randomly lost all threading into the block. The ground tip also broke and fell off into the cylinder. I had to re-tap the hole. If those metal shavings did not blow out of the exhaust, it is really just a matter of time. I would buy a new car tomorrow if I could. Mileage is in my signature.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
I would buy a new car tomorrow if I could.

Does this mean you have the funds for a rental vehicle when yours gets stranded on the side of the road? Sorry but I'm not following the logic here.

The diff seal is cheap and easy, you need to maintain the proper fluid level and this repair is far cheaper than a day and time in a rental. If you need help we can assist you but I don't see why you would risk a breakdown.
 

webdawg

Member
Jun 26, 2014
247
Here is my post working on it:

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads...drivers-differential-seal-drivers-axle.13702/

Two things first off:

Before you start any work in this, you have to pull or at least loosen the big drain plug on the side of the differential. People suggest this because sometimes it can be a real pain to unscrew/impossible. When I did it the first time I had a nice air impact and a 6 point socket that fit it perfect. Was easy to take off.

Next, when you take the CV axle out, start with the rented slide hammer from autozone/wherever. It may be easy, might be hard. I think if I would have started with the slide hammer I might have been good. I stuck mine and spent 6 HOURS trying to get it out. Pounding and pounding.

Here is the roadie's trailvoy post: http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=63915

It has some nice pictures.

I think I grabbed a seal puller to get it out: http://www.harborfreight.com/seal-puller-35556.html
seal.jpg
You do not want to damage the metal that the seal goes into.

So the only reason I went any further with this is because I had the seal out. The only thing you can pull out of this (drivers) side of the differential is the RACE for the bearings that are pressed onto the inner shaft. You cannot unpress the bearings without doing a full removal and rebuild of the front differential. If you head over to rock auto and search for Differential Bearing you will see many listings.

The funny part is, they do sell just the race so I am thinking people are replacing it. My race was pretty messed up, folded over metal...really weird.

So you pop the CV axle, remove the seal, unscrew the thing that holds the race in, replace the race, screw the thing it back in (look at the other post that I made for how much to tighten), put the seal back in with a seal installer, put the axle back in, fill the differential until a bit starts pouring out out the top fill plug. You could drain the entire thing and fill it with fresh fluid also. (Synthetic!)

You have to do a decent job of tightening the hold the holds the race in because it keeps forces on things inside of the differential.

I was at about 155k on my vehicle, so if you are at less mileage, I might not deal with the race. If I remember correctly, that race spins all the time because the axle spins with it. I am sure there are forces that work on that race over time and degrade it.

---break---

So it looks like you are thinking about the other side and the fact that the transmission is in the way and stuff. Well, on the other side of the vehicle (passenger) what the axle plugs into is called a front axle disconnect (
). This is a part of the 4x4 system that locks and unlocks the front wheels together for 4WD. If you watch that video you will see that the cv axle on that side plugs into it instead of the differential and that the differential has something going from it to the front axle disconnect. If you ever mess with this side, start with a slide hammer just like the other side.

If you keep watching the video, you can see when you take the disconnect off, there is a male axle that goes from it to the differential.

What I kind of concluded was that there have to be less up and down forces on that passenger side race because the axle is not in it, but in the disconnect. I am thinking I am most likely fine right now on that differential side. You can get a new differential from rockauto for 825.79. At this point and time I do not know how worried I am about it. I do not use the 4WD a lot, but when I do, I do need it.

I actually might post a thread after this about how much it is to rebuild the differentials vs purchase new. I think I will also ask how long they have lasted in their vehicles.

At one point, I had to replace my front axle disconnect early: http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads...g-foward-at-speed-40mph-2004-tb-lt-4wd.13438/

If you look through there you can see that mine was toast and find the video of what a bad one is like.
 

webdawg

Member
Jun 26, 2014
247
I've replaced the seal once before, it's just a little time consuming and I don't see any need for it. Last week, a spark plug randomly lost all threading into the block. The ground tip also broke and fell off into the cylinder. I had to re-tap the hole. If those metal shavings did not blow out of the exhaust, it is really just a matter of time. I would buy a new car tomorrow if I could. Mileage is in my signature.

Ohh man!!! Sorry to hear that.

Did you have to install a helicoil or just re-thread?

I hope you watched these videos:



Did you try and remove the metal out of it or use grease? If you are worried about the cylinder you could bore scope it and also do a compression test...
 

webdawg

Member
Jun 26, 2014
247
I've replaced the seal once before, it's just a little time consuming and I don't see any need for it. Last week, a spark plug randomly lost all threading into the block. The ground tip also broke and fell off into the cylinder. I had to re-tap the hole. If those metal shavings did not blow out of the exhaust, it is really just a matter of time. I would buy a new car tomorrow if I could. Mileage is in my signature.

I just saw your mileage and I did not know that you already replaced the seal. How is the vehicle running otherwise?

I saw video of a guy disabling the 4WD on his by taking the axles out and I am sure other stuff.

I would think you would have to cap/seal the drivers side of the differential at least, and is anything moving in there if the 4wd is off and BOTH axles are out?

I drove without an axle in before, but that was on the disconnect side. Nothing could leak out.

I also wonder if there is any danger with the bearings. The 4wd front bearings are meant to have an axle in them.
 

DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
Otherwise, it's fine. I'm really annoyed right now. The bearings are the same on both 2 and 4 wheel drive models. I've had to replace both during the time of my wheel spacers pre-2012. They are both Timkens. I'm just trying to weigh value/rust/state title transfer fee versus lower miles/no rust. I got the spark plug repair kit at Advance Auto for $5. It included 4 thread adapters, of course we need the long one.

I took the frame cross-member out last night, but was not able to drop the rack. It might be a good thing because I re-examined it today and took the "drain plug" out. I took it out and only 5 drops of a really black liquid came out. It is actually a spring loaded mechanism that I tightened down a little bit. It still seems to not be smooth while pulling directly on the tie rod. However, engine running seems to be fine, but then again, no wheel load. I'm going to put it back together to see what happens. My concern is the clockspring.
 

DIY Fixer

Member
Nov 10, 2015
104
Wisconsin
As long as fluid level is up to par than I don't see why bearing would be a failure. Mainly the seal is always the first to go mainly the driver than passenger side. But I wouldn't worry about the bearing just yet if fluid level is okay.
 

DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
All it was was the loose nut. I do however have "service air bag" and turn signals that don't cancel. At least it's drivable.
 
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DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
Looks like in all of the loose spins, I damaged one of the clockspring ribbon cables. I hope that it will let me drive it without constant warnings about airbag malfunctions until I get it repaired. I'll get back to getting the shaft back to zero degrees in the mean time.
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DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
It seems as if my Google user share permissions were set incorrectly for the photos. You should see them now.
 

DJones

Original poster
Member
Jan 21, 2012
701
St. Petersburg, Florida
That's exactly what it was. Too bad I found it after removing the steel plate and buying another used rack. There is enough room to fit a small crescent wrench and adjust as needed. There is no more looseness in the steering and no more loud popping sounds. I hope I didn't mess up the LCA alignment after removing 2 of the 3 bolts.
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