SOMETHING Just blew...

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
I have confidence my truck will last another 3 years pain-free. Transmission is more of the heart of the truck than anything else. Everything else can be replaced piece by piece, less the engine block :tongue:
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
I will have to check my tranny temps while towing but I am pretty sure they dont get above 220.

View attachment 29158

With regards to this chart...this is if you are operating your transmission in those temp ranges 100% of the time! Seriously, how many people do that? Even with our stock tranny cooler? Its a bit deceiving to the public to use this chart in such a dishonest manner. Lets get real and stop with the fear mongering and recommending a second tranny cooler. Like I said the factory one is sufficient in itself. According to my scan tool I run my tranny between 145 and 175 on an average day. We dont want average every day folk going around worrying about something that really isnt as important as changing the fluid itself.
 

Attachments

  • 15692d1372213381t-something-just-blew-transmission-failure-temperature-chart.jpg
    15692d1372213381t-something-just-blew-transmission-failure-temperature-chart.jpg
    19.7 KB · Views: 40

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Got an informal diagnosis... 3rd and 4th clutches burnt out. New tranny installation next week.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
CaptainXL said:
I will have to check my tranny temps while towing but I am pretty sure they dont get above 220.

View attachment 15715

With regards to this chart...this is if you are operating your transmission in those temp ranges 100% of the time! Seriously, how many people do that? Even with our stock tranny cooler? Its a bit deceiving to the public to use this chart in such a dishonest manner. Lets get real and stop with the fear mongering and recommending a second tranny cooler. Like I said the factory one is sufficient in itself. According to my scan tool I run my tranny between 145 and 175 on an average day. We dont want average every day folk going around worrying about something that really isnt as important as changing the fluid itself.

Wow. You got a serious hard-on bout dissing the secondary coolers many of us support and use. No one is saying every person MUST run one.

You got some issues with your truck. Even with a secondary cooler I run 170 to 195 in normal driving. Your trans is running cool and your truck doesn't run right in certain temperatures...an issue no one else seems to have. I read your threads. Hard to take your advice when mine runs perfect even when beat offroad, cruising in town, or towing. I just may be on to something with these crazy mods...like a secondary trans cooler...
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
Second cooler like a 2nd girlfriend. Sometimes you just don't get enough and need a 2nd. Point is unless you are on top of your game, it could cost you more in the long run IF NEGLECTED. To each their own. Can only make suggestions based on hearsay and experience right? Everyone has an opinion. Do what you do and blame only yourself. Why mine is still bone stock with a K&N filter :raspberry:
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
DenaliHD66 said:
Mine lasted 113k, and I revved those gears up to the redline ALL the time. I manually ran in 1st and 2nd gear a lot just listening to that open air system (intake/exhaust) purr like a jet engine in the cold winter months.

Not sure if this was what I was referring to but it wasn't about high RPM driving, it was high RPM engagement if there was low pressure. Kinda creates a "neutral drop" scenario. The sunshell usually takes the beating but they have been replaced by hardened shells.

Whatever trans you go with, I would make sure it has the GM hardened sunshell and not the "Beast"... reason is the GM is a more balanced unit.

Not sure what your budget is but if you are pushing 2K, then I would take a look at this one. At least compare this one to what others are offering.

4L60E HD
 

STLtrailbSS

Member
Dec 4, 2011
1,617
Yeah I have to say atleast on an SS I have learned a secondary cooler I will say is absolutely necessary if you use what you paid for and don't old man it. I can hit 200 with an aux cooler. Before that my transmission ran on lava. The stock set up can not keep up with the demand unless you drive it like a Prius.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Getting the Jasper tranny with the warranty. $2500 estimate [as a safe figure].

Best investment I made in 2013 (I hope I can say this in 2-3 more years).
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
UPDATE:

Dropped the truck off this morning, was expecting to get it back tonight. But they struggled for 4 hours with one bolt that was stripped in the block. They couldn't heat it because it was close to the cylinder so just PB and elbow grease til it came out. Holiday tomorrow, should be done Friday. I miss my baby :sadcry:
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
DenaliHD66 said:
Installed. Done. I think. SES light is still on.

Total damage: $3,118.67

Glad it's done. But man. I can get mine rebuilt from the best guy in town for $1800. And that's with a new torque converter and upgraded sun shell.

gmcman said:
Whatever trans you go with, I would make sure it has the GM hardened sunshell and not the "Beast"... reason is the GM is a more balanced unit.

I don't see a problem. The members over at the full size chevy forum recommend the "Beast" all the time. You might want to let them know.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Oh and mine came with an external tranny cooler with an extra core, and it mounted near the AC condenser. I'll look underneath today to see how the plumbing worked out.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Took a couple pics of the piping underneath the radiator where it bypasses the radiator completely. First pic is driver side, second pic is passenger side. Anyone know if this will keep my coolant levels a bit cooler as well in the radiator?

evK1gGJ.jpg


Wg0dgNX.jpg
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
A few things I've noticed with the new tranny so far:

1. On a cold startup, sometimes the truck will lurch forward in place.
2. When shifted with the brake fully depressed into drive, there is a significant clunk.
3. When shifted into reverse with the brake fully depressed, there is also a significant clunk.


Could this be an indicating of too much play in the u-joint or something not hooked up properly?
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
CaptainXL said:
I don't see a problem. The members over at the full size chevy forum recommend the "Beast" all the time. You might want to let them know.

The Beast is a proven sunshell, undisputed, built slightly more beefy than the hardened GM. Fact is the Beast has had balance issues and the GM is a more balanced unit. Both will work well and I doubt you will feel any imbalance with the Beast, but that's why I feel in our applications the GM unit is the wiser choice.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
DenaliHD66 said:
A few things I've noticed with the new tranny so far:

1. On a cold startup, sometimes the truck will lurch forward in place.
2. When shifted with the brake fully depressed into drive, there is a significant clunk.
3. When shifted into reverse with the brake fully depressed, there is also a significant clunk.


Could this be an indicating of too much play in the u-joint or something not hooked up properly?

I would absolutely check the U-Joints, make sure they didn't take anything apart. Could very well be a loose crossmember bolt.

Just document EVERYTHING including date, notify the shop with every annoyance and they will get it right. What you spent on that trans it should serve you drinks.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
DenaliHD66 said:
A few things I've noticed with the new tranny so far:

1. On a cold startup, sometimes the truck will lurch forward in place.
2. When shifted with the brake fully depressed into drive, there is a significant clunk.
3. When shifted into reverse with the brake fully depressed, there is also a significant clunk.


Could this be an indicating of too much play in the u-joint or something not hooked up properly?

1) Not uncommon. Mine does similar sometimes. I used to use the parking brake until it started seizing up on me (rusted cables I'm pretty sure) so now if I'm in a tight spot and there is a risk of bumping something in front of me (like someone parked on top of me in a parking lot) when starting I just put my foot on the brake before cranking.
2 & 3) Couple things that come to mind are U joints, or simply the new trans is going into gear much quicker so it takes up the slack in the drivetrain much quicker, making it clunk. A little bit of a thunk is normal from the slack being taken up, but not excessive. Worth asking about having checked.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Yeah I spent way more than I wanted to, but if the truck lasts 3 more years without another major repair it will have been worth it. Rebuilds are sketchy and used transmissions with high mileage aren't cheap either, and those are a complete shot in the dark really.
 

jimmyjam

Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,634
That transmission _IS_ a rebuild.
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
DenaliHD66 said:
A few things I've noticed with the new tranny so far:

1. On a cold startup, sometimes the truck will lurch forward in place.

This appears to be normal.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bulletin No.: 08-07-30-026A

Date: May 17, 2011


Subject: Information on Slight Vehicle Movement in Park at Start Up After Cold Soak
Models:
2012 and Prior GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
Equipped with Automatic Transmission

Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to add the 2010-2012 model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-07-30-026 (Section 07 - Transmission/Transaxle).

Some vehicles may rock or move slightly forward or rearward while in park at start up after cold soak. This condition may be accompanied by a clunk noise. This is a slight movement that is more often seen visually, rather than felt, when viewed from the outside and using the auto-start feature, if equipped.

This slight movement is due to the residual transmission fluid in the clutch packs that creates a partial apply on start up. This movement is stopped by the parking pawl and/or transmission fluid exhausting completely from the clutch packs.

This slight movement has no adverse affects on the transmission and no repair should be attempted. This condition is normal. This can be verified by comparing with another identically built vehicle under the same cold conditions.

To prevent this condition from occurring, the parking brake should be utilized as per the Owner's Manual recommendations anytime the vehicle is parked.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Okay cool, so anyone know since the tranny cooler lines bypass the radiator now to their own dedicated cooler, will the radiator fluid run any cooler than normal?
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
DenaliHD66 said:
Okay cool, so anyone know since the tranny cooler lines bypass the radiator now to their own dedicated cooler, will the radiator fluid run any cooler than normal?

No. The coolant usually heats up the transmission faster. Your efficiency is gonna get hurt in the winter using a dedicated connection as the trans fluid will take longer to heat up. Would be better to connect both the radiator and external cooler in series.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
DenaliHD66 said:
Okay cool, so anyone know since the tranny cooler lines bypass the radiator now to their own dedicated cooler, will the radiator fluid run any cooler than normal?

I do not think anyone has actually tried it set-up this way so there is no way to really give you good this answer. Everyone I know of has used the factory cooler and an aftermarket, not just an aftermarket.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
CaptainXL said:
No. The coolant usually heats up the transmission faster. Your efficiency is gonna get hurt in the winter using a dedicated connection as the trans fluid will take longer to heat up. Would be better to connect both the radiator and external cooler in series.

Interesting...a few posts ago, you were against external coolers. Why the change of heart?
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
DenaliHD66 said:
Okay cool, so anyone know since the tranny cooler lines bypass the radiator now to their own dedicated cooler, will the radiator fluid run any cooler than normal?

Did you find out why the factory cooler was by-passed? Did the transmission installer check to see if the factory cooler would function or even mention to you that it was not hooked up? Seems like they should have at least asked which cooler you wanted to use or if you wanted both.
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
HARDTRAILZ said:
Interesting...a few posts ago, you were against external coolers. Why the change of heart?

Hmm yeah. I am not against adding anything if it is needed. And in this case I am trying to help out regardless. Its just that I dont think our transmission needs another cooler, dedicated or otherwise. You are free to argue however you want. Its just my opinion. Btw, I was towing my 6000 lb trailer the other day up and down hills going 60 mph and the fluid temp ranged from 210-230F. According to GM 230F is considered the entry level safe range of 230-260 when towing. Coolant temp stayed steady at 210F. :thumbsup:
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
I dont think you will much if any difference in coolant temps. The coolant enters at around 195-200 deg, the small surface area of the ractory cooler isnt a huge influence on coolant temps.

However, the factory cooler shouldn't be bypassed in your situation. Use the aftermarket cooler AFTER the factory coolef. The factory cooler serves two purposes......quick warm-up and cooling.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
CaptainXL said:
the fluid temp ranged from 210-230F.

CaptainXL said:
Coolant temp stayed steady at 210F. :thumbsup:



Which of these two statements in your single post is bullshit? Cause they sure as hell can not both be true.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
If your trans temp is climbing from 210 to 230, then your factory cooler needs help. Just too much heat without an aux cooler.
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
CaptainXL said:
I was towing my 6000 lb trailer the other day up and down hills going 60 mph and the fluid temp ranged from 210-230F. :

CaptainXL said:
You shouldnt tow over 50 mph with a full load. Did you know this?

sounds like talking out both sides of your face is becomming your deal! you tried telling me off like I was a dumb ass for towing 60-65!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
jonbo2002 said:
sounds like talking out both sides of your face is becomming your deal! you tried telling me off like I was a dumb ass for towing 60-65!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
Hmmm. When did a 6,000lbs trailer become a full load?

I have 3.42 gears with a swb 4.2 and a full load to me is 10,000lbs GCWR.

Not sure about speeds because it depends where I am towing.

Am I misinformed? :confused:


I won't pull a 6,000lbs trailer but those that are rated to it should be at full load when GCWR is reached? Hypothetically of course, if all variables are appropriate and present?
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
6000 lb trailer and the truck is over 10k gcwr
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Playsinsnow said:
Hmmm. When did a 6,000lbs trailer become a full load?

I have 3.42 gears with a swb 4.2 and a full load to me is 10,000lbs GCWR.

Not sure about speeds because it depends where I am towing.

Am I misinformed? :confused:


I won't pull a 6,000lbs trailer but those that are rated to it should be at full load when GCWR is reached? Hypothetically of course, if all variables are appropriate and present?

GCWR is combined, tow vehicle and trailer and what's inside....depending on trim and gears, it's between 10&11K

Should amount to roughly 5700-6300 lbs for the trailer weight.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
I am aware of the different weight ratings between GCWR, trailer, and cargo. Guess I expected more from an XL/EXT. Is the curb weight difference really only 300lbs (don't remember where I read) between an ext and swb? Assuming both are 2wd or 4wd of course.

Sorry for the thread jack too.


I second the aux cooler after the factory for same reasons.
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
Playsinsnow said:
I am aware of the different weight ratings between GCWR, trailer, and cargo. Guess I expected more from an XL/EXT. Is the curb weight difference really only 300lbs (don't remember where I read) between an ext and swb? Assuming both are 2wd or 4wd of course.

Sorry for the thread jack too.


I second the aux cooler after the factory for same reasons.

actually the 10,000lbs applys for the swb and ext as long as they both are 4.2 with 4.42 gears. so the swb can tow a few hundred pounds more, being as it is a few hundred pounds less.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
jonbo2002 said:
actually the 10,000lbs applys for the swb and ext as long as they both are 4.2 with 4.42 gears. so the swb can tow a few hundred pounds more, being as it is a few hundred pounds less.

$20 says you meant 3.42gears...

There has been discussion elsewhere that GM sets conservative max weights for towing? I couldn't imagine trying to tow more without serious mods.
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
Playsinsnow said:
$20 says you meant 3.42gears...

There has been discussion elsewhere that GM sets conservative max weights for towing? I couldn't imagine trying to tow more without serious mods.

lol you'd be $20 richer :thumbsup: thank you, my bad:crazy:

mine was able to pull my trailer up quite an incline on my property, but it struggled to get up there. that was mostly due to my highway tires that kept breaking loose in 4hi. now with my BFG rugged terrains I have no problems. I won't be drag racing a HD with a matching trailer but it is plenty capable!
 

Forum Statistics

Threads
23,273
Posts
637,498
Members
18,472
Latest member
MissCrutcher

Members Online

No members online now.