Rough idle and knocking noise from bottom of motor

Discussion in 'Engine & Drivetrain' started by holytornado84, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. TollKeeper

    TollKeeper Well-Known Member

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    Hate to be a stick in the mud, but I wouldn't worry about the leak, or the flex plate until you get the cylinder 3 misfire figured out. If it turns out to be something major, you can then decide if it's worth all the trouble for all repairs, instead of throwing money and time at it.
     
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  2. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    So I found some free time to work on it and I am all the way down to the bell housing bolts. I have removed eight and have located a ninth one and it makes me curious as to how many bolts there are to remove. Also, (to anybody that has done this job or has the knowledge I'm looking for) what is the easiest way to access those bolts? As everyone probably has figured out with this job, the further you go up towards the body, the harder it is.

    If anyone doesn't mind to double check my work and make sure I haven't forgotten anything, here is what I have done so far: Disconnect the negative, removed the muffler, jacked up the transmission a bit, removed the crossmember, removed the prndl wire and guide, removed the electrical connector next to it, removed the transmission cooling lines, removed the dipstick tube, removed the torque converter to flexplate bolts (3), started removing the bell housing bolts and that is where I am now. I'm not sure how many electrical connectors I removed, but if anybody also has any information on how many I need to remove, I would appreciate that info as well. Thanx to all!
     
  3. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    You will have to keep the Transmission supported during this entire process or you risk either breaking bolts or stripping out the Mate Holes at the back of the block when it tries to fall out. There should be a Total of Ten ((EDIT: Make that 11)) 15 MM Bolts that fasten the Transmission to the Engine Block with the two situated right at the top under the Engine Firewall Cowling and they are the most difficult to access and R&R. @Mooseman and @therealsethallen both have ways of getting those bolts in and out that differ from my more difficult method of removing them from under the vehicle by struggling to reach over the top of the Transmission to get to them with a 15MM Deep Wobble Socket and a ridiculously long set of ratchet extensions.

    Once unbolted, this Transmission is very difficult to manage without an additional pair of hands under there to maneuver and guide it down and out and right back up again without using a proper Transmission Scissor Jack with a Built In Safety Belt. And you will have to contend with trying to keep the Torque Converter stuffed inside of the Bell Housing or risk having it fall out on the deck and damaging it... or injuring you. Check out the one Harbor Freight sells for $99.00 and save yourself a great deal of grief by doing so. If you just use a Floor Jack... you run the risk of having the Transmission fall over on its head.

    Please remember that with the Torque Converter and a Boat Load of Transmission Fluid nested inside of this thing... the 4L60E Transmission weighs about as much as Drunk Lumberjack at around 200 Lbs ...and will be just about as unruly and hard to handle, too. Also... If you cannot seal the Tail Shaft with some Saran Wrap secured with a tight wrapping of Black Duct Tape... you will have One Hell of a Mess with spilled Transmission Fluid before the job is done.

    If you don't think you can ensure that the Torque Converter will behave itself and stay tucked up inside of the Bell Housing on the Fluid Pump Shaft... You can make it stay in place with a bent piece of Flat Steel drilled out on one end and held in place with the Brass Carriage Bolt and Nut and Washer Set from a Plumbing Repair Kit ($5.00) just drill out hole close to one end in the Flat Steel piece and bend the other end in slightly about 3-4" from the other end.

    Once the Transmission is secured to the Trans-Jack and all the Transmission Case Bolts have been extracted... Rock the Transmission loose slightly from the Guide Pins on either side of the The Engine Block and pull the Transmission very slowly back only about 2-3". Then slip the Flat Steel Piece in the space in front of the Torque Converter and slide the Brass Bolt through the Steel and then through the inside of the Bell Housing and slip a Washer on before tightening down the fastener to hold in the Torque Converter. After that... as long as the Strap around the Transmission has been ratcheted on tight... you can get as physical with it as you like... short of hitting anything with a 3 Lb Sledge Hammer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
  4. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Here is an image of the HF Trans-Scissor Jack:

    TRANSJACK.jpg


    And I forgot to mention that the Round Transmission Plug on the Passenger Top side area must be disconnected (as per a recent mention and suggestion by @Sparky )by "feeling" around the area for the Two Flat Squeeze Tabs on the Harness...and after Pinching them inwards... just pull the Plug Straight Upwards:

    4L60EHARNESSCOUPLINGLOCATION.jpg 4L60EHARNESSCOUPLING.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  5. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    I managed to get the rest of the bolts up with about 4 foot of extensions. I am going to try and pull it tomorrow after I put together a makeshift base with a 2x6 and a couple of ratchet straps along with the Lincoln floor jack. How much do those transmission jacks usually run?

    Also, where do I need to be placing the jack? Bottom of transmission pan or under the bell housing?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2016
  6. 07TrailyLS

    07TrailyLS Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't place it directly under the pan. It's hollow and will fold in on itself. Your bellhousing and tail shaft are thick aluminum and should probably resist the weight of itself.
     
  7. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    This is the Latest Advertisement (and there may some On-Line Coupons as well at HF dot Com:

    http://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html

    Because of the large Square Inch Area of the Steel Pan... The brunt of the weight can be supported, but as mentioned by @07TrailyLS... the pan can be vulnerable to dents and punctures from below. What I wound up doing was using a 10" X 10" Square piece of 1/2" Plywood first...and after Duct Taping an Old 2" Local Telephone Book together as a "cushion"... I laid those two items on the slippery top of the Scissor Jack and adjusted its position until the largest area of the pan was being supported...and strapped the Transmission to the Lift Snug and Tight. Be mindful of the Vent Tube after you remove the Rubber Hose and place a Rag over it so that the Strap won't bend it all out of shape.

    This worked out very well and before the re-installation of the Transmission was finished... I wound up making several more to slip in and under the Transmission Base as I was trying to wrangle it into place later on. Once the Transmission is unbolted, lowered and slid out from underneath the vehicle... get some Saran Wrap and make a small plug out of a paper towel nested inside the Plastic Wrap and Duct Tape that plug down inside the large port for the Transmission Dipstick Rubber Grommet. Likewise... Tape off the Vapor Tube at the Top as the amount of Dirt and Crap that will be falling from the under carriage as it comes down and out can get very hectic and I finally resorted to using an Acrylic Face Shield early on in the process to protect my vision.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
  8. m.mcmillen

    m.mcmillen Gold Supporter

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    I bought this extension quite some time ago because I thought that it might come in handy the next time I had to remove an engine or transmission. It has a 1/2" input and a 3/8" output and it is 36" long. I used a impact rated swivel socket and I was able to get to all of the bolts pretty easily with my 1/2" impact. This is nice to instead of using multiple extensions and having everything all wobbly underneath there.

    https://www.amazon.com/SK-SKT-46175-Impact-Extension-Adapter/dp/B00061SNGQ
     
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  9. 07TrailyLS

    07TrailyLS Well-Known Member

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    The price of that scissor jack is excellent. I was thinking it would have been hundreds of dollars
     
  10. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    I actually went out and purchased it yesterday for $80. I subscribed to Harbor freight for their coupons online and they sent them to me via text message. It was a whole 20% off. Good for seven days. Anyways, with me having two trailblazers of my own, (each having experienced transmission problems of their own due to me being hard on them) I figured I might as well go ahead and make the purchase. I'll be doing another transmission job sooner or later to fix my 07 LT.

    I was actually able to get the last few bell housing bolts out very easily after I adjusted my position. I was just going about it all wrong laying down on my back reaching up and around the bell housing. I had to drop the transmission down a few inches and slide back behind the tail shaft and raise my head up and I was able to see over the top side and accessed the bolts very easily using a long series of extensions. I think I literally had like eight different extensions starting from a 1/2 inch drive ratchet with 1/2 inch drive extensions all the way down to 3/8 inch drive extensions with no swivel needed due to how much arch it achieved with several extensions attached. It made contact with the bolts very flush and I was able to crank on it as fast as I wanted to without slipping off. There were actually 11 bell housing bolts in all. Two at the bottom, two at the top, three on the drivers side and four on the passengers side. Before I dropped the transmission down a few inches (with the crossmember removed) to access the top bolts, I put the bottom bolts and one bolt on each side back in and tightened them up for extra support as I removed all the top bolts.
     
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  11. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    I'm glad for all of your progress with saving the money for the lift and for mentioning the (11) vs. (10) Bolts. And as a side-bar... Like you...after having spent a week under my Trailblazer in the Dead of Winter during an unseasonably Ice Cold and Rainy period... after laying on my back, soaking wet while trying to raise my upper body for hours on end and getting rained on at a 10 Degree downward incline in my driveway... I wound up developing a Six-Pack of rock hard tummy muscles that my Neighbor's Cat couldn't scratch. I think Motor Trend Magazine once did a piece that said, "If you can Pull the 4L60E Transmission out of your GMT360 all by your lonesome... You'll Never have to Prove Your Manhood... In ANY Other Way..." LOL ;>)
     
  12. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Lol! That's some good stuff MRRSM. Also, thanks for your extra defined and over the top info. It has definitely gotten me a lot further, way faster. Unlike your situation, mine is a little less volatile. It's around 70° over here in S. Oklahoma and there has only been one day that it had rained me out.

    I however think that I have ruled out the flexplate after pulling the transmission back and examining the rear surface of it. I will post some pictures and a couple videos as well.
    Stumped as to what to do now IMG_1868.JPG IMG_1869.JPG IMG_1870.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  13. 07TrailyLS

    07TrailyLS Well-Known Member

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    No cracked, broken, or missing teeth on the flex plate? It also could be severely warped like @Capote 's was and could be out of balance. Just trying to throw out ideas to you.
     
  14. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    You could start the engine. Won't harm anything but just don't rev it like mad. You might hear the noise easier unless it's in the torque converter.

    There was a video of someone doing just that. Can't find it though.
     
  15. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    IIANM... This is the Video suggested by @Mooseman ... and I Strongly Caution you from either standing near or laying under the vehicle while the Engine is Idling ... because without the Three Torque Converter Bolts in place to restrain the Flex-Plate... if it lets go and flies off of the Tail of the Crankshaft ...you might be very badly injured. Please use the same technique you used in your first video to videotape another Walk-Around while allowing the Engine to run at a Low Idle so we can all hear and see what you are experiencing. This fellow was taking his life in his own hands when making this video ...and he may never know just how lucky he really was:



    Please don't despair about this First Stage of a very necessary "Exploratory Surgery" for having any lack of obvious cracks in the "kidney bean" shaped holes of the Flex-Plate. There may yet be some cracks hidden in it from view under the (8) Hole Thrust Washer that will be revealed when you remove the Bolts, Thrust Washer and Flex-Plate. However... I am in full agreement with @Mooseman that before removing the Flex-Plate... Starting the Engine to a LOW IDLE ONLY as this engine can be damaged if you accelerate the Internal Rotating Assembly when it is UNLOADED.

    By this I mean... Normally...the Mass and Weight of the Torque Converter bolted to the perimeter of the Flex-Plate prevents this condition from happening under ordinary operating circumstances. When you first start the engine at Low Idle... should you hear a Ringing Sound ... like a rhythmic Brass Bell noise... then the Prime Suspect still remains The Flex-Plate. Its important to realize that there are other dynamic forces that get applied to the Hardened Steel, Hobbed Ring Gear Teeth creating enormous stress to rotate under the influence of the Starter Motor that can affect the "Trueness" of the Flex-Plate.

    If you examine the edges of the Ring Gear teeth and they appear ground off or "Chewed Up"... this would be serious evidence of an alignment problem between the Starter Small Gear and the Ring Gear during hundreds or possibly thousands of Engine Starts... and once again... if the Flex-Plate is warped...it will remain The #1 Suspect.

    While the three Torque Converter Mounting Bolts positioned 120 Degrees apart can resist some of this stress... if the Torque Converter is worn about the internal shaft fitting into the Transmission... the forces would sufficient over time to cause the Flex-Plate to Warp out of its normal orbit. So if you hear that "Bell Ringing" sound... and then replace the Flex-Plate afterwards and then re-start the Engine at Low Idle and while listening for any repeat of those same, rhythmic and you hear only silence... then you will have solved the problem.

    If however prior to the replacement of the Old Flex-Plate, you CANNOT hear any unusual Knocking or Ringing sounds... then the Onus shifts from the Flex-Plate and Engine Internals... over to The Torque Converter... which is capable of "swelling" or Ballooning up under heavy fluid pressure caused by the Transmission Fluid Pump under Centrifugal Motion moving the Fluid in between the vanes inside with the bulging effect of forcing the Flex-Plate to bend in and out very eccentrically.

    If this turns out to be the case... replacing the Torque Converter is in order... right along with also putting in a Brand New Flex-Plate. And again, no despair should follow on as nothing can be investigated and repaired back there without enduring the difficulties of removing the Transmission first; regardless of exactly which component ultimately gets convicted along the way.

    The important thing to do next... now that the Transmission has been removed ... is to ensure that any knocking sounds do NOT emanate from within the engine itself AFTER a Brand New Flex-Plate is installed as those would be sounds that can only be made internally when caused by a Rod-Knock and/or Spun Crankshaft or Connecting Rod Bearings. So what follows on from here requires just a bit of a Plan and some Organized, Investigative thinking about what to look for...and to do these actions... just one step at a time. So Take a Step Back... And Take a Deep Breath and know that everyone here will stay the course with you as you proceed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2016
  16. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    I will get a good video of it the next time I go out there which should be sometime in the morning. I have the serpentine belt, starter and fan pulled as I believe I need to replace the front main crankshaft seal under the harmonic balancer as well. Would it be a good idea to run a video with the flexplate installed and also a second clip of video after I pull it? Just wondering if it would harm anything if I turned the engine on with the flexplate not installed on the crankshaft.

    The jack MRRSM suggested worked well and is still working well as a hoist. I have lowered it down to the lowest possible height. If I want to get it out from under the vehicle, I'm going to have to figure out how to raise the vehicle much higher though. At least another 6 inches I believe. I may have to get some wood blocks, but as of right now, I don't have any reason to pull it from underneath the covering of the car.

    I'll try to get back on this as soon as the sun starts to rise hopefully.
     
  17. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Lol! Just realized the error in my thinking from earlier. Can't run the engine without a flexplate. At least I would have to believe the starter would have an amazing time trying to start it with nothing there
     
  18. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Unless you're the Hulk and could pull start it from the harmonic balancer, LOL!

    We'll wait the results of this test.
     
  19. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    If I may jump ahead of you just a bit ... allow me to emphatically urge you NOT to remove the Harmonic Balancer (Damper-Dampener) just yet. You should NOT disturb ANYTHING connected with the Internal Rotating Assembly until you have sorted out the problem at the back of the engine first. At the moment... while I agree that the only way to Eat an Elephant is "One Bite at a Time"... the present Main Course MUST remain with consuming it... "Tail First".

    Your observations about the Accessories at the front of the Motor prompts me to suggest that you leave the Serpentine Belt OFF of the engine for the brief period you will be running the Engine for the First "Sound Test" of the areas around the engine... from the Top, Front, Sides and the areas Underneath the vehicle. The reason for this is that it will serve to remove the Alternator, Water Pump and Power Steering Pump and Belt Tensioner from producing extraneous noises that might confuse the sound diagnosis at the back and sides of the engine. This idea shows the value of making short "Walk-Around" videos of how the Engine Sounds from the Top, the Front, The Sides and from Underneath the vehicle so we can have a baseline and another for comparison to work with.

    If after you start the engine... you hear NO unusual sounds from either the Flex-Plate or from the Internal Moving Assemblies... Shut the Engine Off and put the Battery on a 30 Minute 2 AMP Charge. During that waiting period... re-install the Serpentine Belt and when the Battery is topped up enough to tolerate another go at it... Start the Engine again... and begin a Second Filming and record the sounds being made from the Top, Front , Sides and Underneath the vehicle for a comparison with your first video.

    If you determine the source of the sound is definitely the Flex-Plate... make no effort to remove the Harmonic Balancer. If you begin tearing into the Front section of the Engine unnecessarily... this project will become infinitely more difficult ... as removing the Front Engine Cover entails the removal of the Oil Pan too... just to get the Timing Chain Cover off... and so there is no point in disturbing that Sleeping Giant up to this point in your repair(s).

    If however, you hear NO Unusual Sounds coming from the Flex-Plate or the Rotating Assembly... but you detect pronounced noises after removing and re-installing the Serpentine Belt... The Alternator (for Bad Bearings) or the Water Pump (likewise... for Bad Bearings) rise to the top of the list for investigation. But... let's Cross One Bridge at a Time... giving us a chance to listen to the Before and After Videos will be a Great Help towards making these diagnostics bear fruit.

    If you get the chance... We would benefit from seeing more close up images of your Flex-Plate... in particular around the Torque Converter Fastener Holes in order to see if any have "0valed out". If any of the three Fasteners were loose leading up to the developing problems, the evidence might be there and would help with the investigation if we get the chance to make a closer inspection of the entire Flex-Plate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  20. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    One more thing before I turn this thing over. I have put the starter back on, but as with the connecting wires, I remember some of the starters I have messed with before on other vehicles have had a rubber protector/grommet covering on them. I seem to be missing this one, that is if there was one on there when I took it off. Can't really remember, but I don't think it did because I don't remember having to pull it back to access the nut underneath. Is this going to cause any problem if I connect and tighten the wires back and then connect the battery and give it power? I don't really think that I should be worried, but then again I don't really have much experience in this area and figured I would throw this out there before I started the car.
     
  21. m.mcmillen

    m.mcmillen Gold Supporter

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    I have been working on putting my engine back in today. When I connected the wires on the starter, there were no rubber boots on the wires. I wouldn't worry about it.
     
  22. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    This is how the Starter and Wiring should appear as a Factory Installed Unit:

    TRAILBLAZERSTARTERMOTORWIRING4.jpeg TRAILBLAZERSTARTERMOTORWIRING5.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2016
  23. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Had to postpone the starting of the engine for a couple of days. She lives 50 miles away and I got to take care of some things on my side of the river.

    The starter definitely does not have the rubber boot on it anymore. I figure as long as I tighten everything very secure and nowhere near contacting the other wires, then it'll be all right. I'll get that video up hopefully by Monday.
     
  24. jsheahawk

    jsheahawk Well-Known Member

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    I'd just like to say that I love reading these diagnosis threads. Rich and compelling.
     
  25. Capote

    Capote Gold Supporter

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    There's nothing wrong with placing the jack under the pan, I've done it numerous times on 4 different GMT360's, 3 with stock pans and mine with a deep pan. Never had any issues damaging the transmission pan at all.
     
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  26. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Well, today was the first day that it was not wet outside in the past few days (after I had commented earlier in the thread on how nice it has been) and I was able to try and fire up the Trailblazer. However, the starter does not engage when I turn the ignition over. There is not even a clicking sound or anything for a loose connection. I have a few wires unhooked such as the two connections that go to the charcoal canister and the electronic connection for the fan clutch. I can't really remember anything else that may be keeping it from starting that I may have disconnected. Any ideas? The instrument cluster lights are lit up and everything and the fuel pump kicks in but when I turned it over fully, everything is blank until I let go of the start position.
     
  27. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Look for @MAY03LT 's video on YouTube for this exact problem. Gives step by step how to troubleshoot thid exact problem.
     
  28. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    If you've never had the chance to "Observe and Learn" from any of the many @MAY03LT Videos... then you are in for a real treat from a "Very Down to Earth" Master-of-Mechanical-Problem-Solving on these vehicles. I'm hoping the one(s) suggested by @Mooseman is/are somewhere on this list of four consecutive videos covering "No Start" situations. I was unclear as to whether you could actually hear the Starter in Operation based on your description of it "Not Engaging"...so if you be very specific about explaining how things went... Step By Step... It would clear things up:

     
  29. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I have watched some of his videos before but I have never found the four videos that you and Mooseman are referencing. I did watch the one that I needed to watch and I have found that there is no power to the "86 fork"(according to MAY03LT's diagram) on the mini starter relay. I could not see that diagram too well in the video to see what all was leading up to that side of the fuse. Anyone have an idea or know where I can find this diagram?
     
  30. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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  31. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    I also tested pin 85 (according to the first picture attached) with my test light hooked up to the positive lead and tried to turn the engine over and did not get no power to the light. So far, the only one that has power is pin 87. I have not tried jumping 87 to 30 to see if the starter would bump over or not. Would you think it has anything to do with the PRNDL switch and wire harness not being connected? I also attached a picture of how I reconnected the wiring on the starter.

    IMG_1910.PNG

    IMG_1894.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2016
  32. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Also tried to pull the selector switch into a different gear possibly neutral but the button lever would not press in.
     
  33. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    I think you mentioned that the Round Plug Wiring Feed on the Top, Passenger Side of the Transmission was plugged back in... But since this Plug is also wired (Pink PNK "E") for an "On-Off" Ignition Power Connection... Perhaps removing the Plug and inspecting the Male Pin Internals on the 4l60E side connector with a Mirror and Bright Flash Light for any Bent Pins ...or simply R&R the Plug with Hard Pressure after you are certain of the Pin Alignments... the Power Connection would made to the PCM and fix the connection problem there. I don't know... At this point... Just short of "P"ing on a Spark Plug...I'd try anything that made sense, was part of what got disconnected and then re-connected during your re-assembly procedures and is non-destructive might be worth a try:

    4l60e pwm.jpg
    Also… about the Relay Testing Issues vs. Bad Ignition Switch…

    Please read this Message in this Screen Print that is part of the link I dropped above for more specific details about sorting out the Ignition Switch in the Lower Steering Column (there are other instructions on how to do this repair and other posts that give more reasons to suspect the IGN SWITCH:

    NOSTARTNOCRANKSOLVED.jpg

    Oh What The Hell! I might as well go Whole Hog with the remaining possibilities before I finally get to sleep:

    As for the Park-Neutral Safety Switch... You did not mention removing the Two Electrical Plugs that are usually Gorilla Glued into the Switch at the GM Factory and more or less will get destroyed if you try to remove the two connectors (If you have not touched them yet... Please Don't Do That...). Also... The problem might have occurred if when you slid the PNSS off of the short armature and did NOT re-align that small plastic Turnstile inside to match what you see in the attached photos of an AC-Delco Factory Switch there could be problems resulting with that misalignment.

    The New Unit is fitted with Slender, Galvanized Tin Apparatus designed to hold the PNSS Internal Position in the "NEUTRAL" spot and that Little Metal Gizmo does not get removed until the very last moment just before the PNSS gets slid onto that short armature under the Lever Rod and re-bolted up ...with the Two End Bolts more or less centering in the middle before attempting to tighten it down and attempt to start the vehicle:

    PARKNEUTRALSAFTEYSWITCH3.jpg PARKNEUTRALSAFTEYSWITCH2.jpg PARKNEUTRALSAFTEYSWITCH1.jpg PARKNEUTRALSAFTEYSWITCH.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
  34. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Is that 20-way electrical harness that was in that last post the one that plugs into the transmission on the top passenger side?

    I was wondering if any of the electrical connectors that plug into the transmission might have anything to do with it. I have the transmission pulled out from underneath the car and nowhere near it. Do I need to connect any of them back to the transmission before the engine will start?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2016
  35. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Okay... Somehow I was laboring under the idea that you had done all of the aforesaid tests and R&Rd the Flex-Plate already and then Re-Installed the Transmission... Hmmm... So your question is a good one because... without the Electronics of the Transmission all being connected and communicating with the PCM (also with a the 4L60E Bolted up High-n-Tight so that the Transmission has a Good Ground)... I think we might have the answer to some of these questions:

    "Is that 20-way electrical harness that was in that last post the one that plugs into the transmission on the top passenger side?"

    Yup... That is the One...

    "I was wondering if any of the electrical connectors that plug into the transmission might have anything to do with it. I have the transmission pulled out from underneath the car and nowhere near it. Do I need to connect any of them back to the transmission before the engine will start?"


    This is a Great Question to ask... But I think I going to have to leave that one for "The Day Crew" because I have been not been to bed yet since yesterday... And I think I need some sleep because I just saw "The Care Bears" Dancing around in my Living Room and I'm starting to Hallucinate!

    I'm sure that now that we understand this information about the "Absent Transmission" ... somebody will chime in soon with what else needs doing to make the engine start.
     
  36. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    OK. Thanks man! Get some sleep. I probably need to do the same thing. Hopefully someone will chime in later on today with some information about the starting issue.

    If anyone has lost track of where I am right now, I have to pull the transmission and have not pulled the flexplate yet to inspect it. I was going to start the motor and see if the knocking still persisted since I have pulled the transmission.
     
  37. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry! I have been using my voice text generator on my iPhone mostly when I post. That meant to say "I have pulled the transmission and have not pulled the flexplate yet to inspect it". Whenever I reviewed it for any mistakes, I missed that one.
     
  38. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    You could have edited your original post. :biggrin:

    If you're not getting power to post 86 with the key on, then something in that circuit is cutting the power. You'll have to check that circuit for why it's not getting there.

    I don't think not having the transmission connected would prevent cranking since others have done it before. The pink wire to the tranny is basically just switched 12+.

    To check if it's the ignition switch, put your test light on post 85 and the other end of the light to B+ (the signal is -). When you turn the key to crank, you should get the momentary light on.

    Just for reference, here is the video:

     
  39. holytornado84

    holytornado84 Well-Known Member

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    86 has no power in run or crank. 85 has no ground in run or crank either. The only one with power is 87. I have had the ground disconnected from the battery from the moment I jacked up the car until the moment I tried to start it to inspect the flexplate so I don't see how anything could have shorted out unless something is/was making contact with something else that I was not aware of before I reconnected the ground terminal on the battery. Then again, I am messing around under the hood in an area that I have a little knowledge about.

    I'll have to figure out how to do this as I go along. I'm sure eventually it'll happen again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2016
  40. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Just to the bottom and left of the post, there is an Edit button. Click that and the treasure awaits you.:compu-punch:

    OK, dumb question, did you check fuses? If they check out, then I would suspect the ignition switch.
     

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