Recommendation for pads/rotors

Discussion in 'Brakes' started by shepherd92683, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. shepherd92683

    shepherd92683 Well-Known Member

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    I've had the AC Delco Durastop brakes for about 50k and they've been ok. I'm looking for the best grab and whatever I need to do to take some sponginess out of the pedel.
     
  2. Daniel644

    Daniel644 Well-Known Member

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    How many miles on it, if it's not been done you might want to look at doing a full system flush of the brake fluid, this is probably the most overlooked fluid in a car, but it really should be done every few years. I which I knew what pads where on mine to tell you, I like them because I don't get ANY brake dust at all on the face of the wheels, which is way different from the Wagner Thermoquiets on my firebird.
     
  3. dmanns67

    dmanns67 Well-Known Member

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    Majority of us around here are running BrakeMotive D/S rotors with ceramic pads. You can pick up (4) rotors and (8) pads for around $187. You will have to search for the BrakeMotive store on EBay.com. EBay is the only place I have seen them sold.

    Also while swapping out the rotors and pads, do a brake fluid flush and refill. Between the BrakeMotive kit and brake fluid flush, my brake pedal is very firm.

    I run larger/heavier wheels in the summer and I could tell a big difference in stopping power over OE after instilling the BrakeMotive kit. Feels like you do not need as much pressure on the brake pedal to get a good bite.

    I have had the kit on for almost a year now and it is holding up well. No rust and the ceramic pads are wearing nicely.
     
  4. Sib

    Sib Silver Supporter

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    I agree with dmanns. I put a set of brake motive rotors and pads on in November and they have been great. While your down you can paint your calipers. Makes a nice touch and can help prevent rust issues.
     
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  5. dmanns67

    dmanns67 Well-Known Member

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    True. Especially if you are running larger wheels. After putting on SS wheels, the calipers were an eyesore. A couple coats does wonders. Also, when you get the new rotors in, you might as well put a few coats of paint on them as well to protect against corrosion. Just make sure you keep the paint off of the brake pad contact surface on the rotors.
     
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  6. BlazingTrails

    BlazingTrails Banned

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    Would it completely crazy to put all my brakes on the ext and order the larger rotors and stuff for mine?? Lol
     
  7. Sib

    Sib Silver Supporter

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    Sounds completely normal to me :thumbsup:
     
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  8. shepherd92683

    shepherd92683 Well-Known Member

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    I'm at 121k and havent changed the brake fluid yet. I've never done it and aren't real comfortable doing it myself. I need to have it done though.
     
  9. stickypoop

    stickypoop Well-Known Member

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    You can also use their own website to search the ebay listings. Helps to bypass the other crap :smile:

    http://www.brakemotive.com/listings/search/
     
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  10. djthumper

    djthumper Administrator

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    You haven't had to have your brakes done? That is when I normally flush the fluid.
     
  11. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    You could grab a set of brake caliper brackets from a V8 TB or Envoy 06-09 from a junker. EXT's stopped after 05 and brake calipers changed after that so you can't use those. Get rotors for the V8. Calipers and pads are the same. Rears are all the same.

    Not a fan of any kind of drilled rotors. A good flush will probably help with the stiffness.
     
  12. shepherd92683

    shepherd92683 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I did my brakes myself at about 70k without doing the fluid. Only thing I don't like about d/s is rust showing especially being in IL with road salt. I haven't had them on a vehicle before so I don't truly know how they are period.
     
  13. bobdec

    bobdec Well-Known Member

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    I may get beat up for this, but I went with Brake/Motive for pads and rotors at about 96K. My old stuff had about 20k miles left, but I had a rotor on one of the front wheels that would warp when it got heated up and go back to normal when cooled off. Rather than fool around and replace one rotor on a 75% worn brake system, I went to all knew.
    I'm not dissatisfied for what I got for the price from BrakeMotive, but I'm not overwhelmed. The old brakes grabbed better than the new pads and slotted/drilled rotors. Feels like the new pads are harder than what I had on there. I noticed it but not my wife so the difference is slight.
    But after about 2000 miles the brakes have developed a squeal at slow speed braking, parking lots, backing out of driveway. Wife keeps saying what's that noise. The pads did not come with squeal dampers or any lube to add to the pads, so I just lubed up all the mounting hardware, pins, etc and installed them. Really don't want to go back in there so I put up w/squeal , hoping it will go away with more pad ware.
    Bottom line I got a decent set of rotors and pads for 4 wheels for about $200.00. However you get what you pay for. Time will tell if they hold up for the long run.
     
  14. dmanns67

    dmanns67 Well-Known Member

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    You're the first person I have EVER heard of complaining about BrakeMotive kits.

    So if you are not promoting BrakeMotive, what are you promoting?
     
  15. djthumper

    djthumper Administrator

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    So you didn't put disc quiet on before mounting the pads? If the pads are not backing off evenly that is the problem.
     
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  16. Kurb

    Kurb Well-Known Member

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    I've never used BrakeMotive pads and rotors, but I tried other inexpensive aftermarket brakes from the local part stores. Every year (~15K miles), I had to change brakes and rotors after the pads wore completely away and tore into the rotors. The AC Delco OEM pads and rotors stop better, feel better, and I got over 3 years out of the first set I tried (almost 50K miles). I am only on the second set of them now.

    I was researching drilled and slotted rotors for my other car, and there are several websites, not including the sites that sell drilled and slotted rotors, saying that the blank rotors are better since they have better contact area, and the holes/slots cause uneven temperatures to develop in the rotors. Apparently, the drilled rotors helped a lot with older brakes since the holes allowed gases from the brake pads to escape, but newer pads do not out-gas like the old pads. Maybe this is why you do not see cross-drilled rotors in NASCAR? I am interested in hearing what others have to say that actually switched from OEM to drilled and/or slotted rotors since I have never used them. It's more for my other car, though, since I am more than happy with the tried and true OEM brakes for the TB.
     
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  17. lint

    lint Well-Known Member

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    I didnt like mine ether too much dust on my wheels and when putting new pads on I use a large flat screwdriver to pull the calipers back before taking them off . have done this for 40 years and never had a problem but with BrakeMotive i broke to big chunks out of the rotors about 4 inches out of 2 rotors ,I did this with a screwdriver , they seem a little brittle
     
  18. gmcman

    gmcman Well-Known Member

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    For pads and rotors I would recommend NAPA Ultra Premium rotors and Centric Fleet pads. Pads may make a little dust but there's a reason they are used on emergency vehicles and cop cars. I believe they are the least fade resistant pads or one of the least.

    I have the SWB also and I switched to the larger LWB rotors on the front with only a caliper bracket change.
     
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  19. vipergg

    vipergg Well-Known Member

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    I've got 81000 miles on the original brakes and it just passed state inspection about a month ago. I certainly can't complain with the Ac/Delco stuff . I have never had a vehicle come anywhere near that kind of mileage . Usually its 35-40K at most .
     
  20. Chickenhawk

    Chickenhawk Well-Known Member

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    Quite frankly, I never would use the word "cheap" and "brakes" in the same sentence. Part of what my wife laughingly refers to as a living is testing the latest police vehicles on race tracks, and I would never settle for the cheapest brakes I could find. Police cars use the brakes HARD.

    I also don't buy on eBay.

    As far as pads, I like top of the line AC Delco and Akebono ceramic pads. Some people believe that Akebono are actually the OEM supplier for factory pads.

    I have NAPA Ultra Premium ceramic pads on the rears, and they seem fine. I would have no problem trying them on the fronts next time. (Akebono might possibly make the ultra premium ceramics for NAPA too.) My Akebono fronts have always been quiet, almost dustless and they give a better initial bite than my OEM pads had after about 50,000 kilometers.

    As far as rotors, I have several rules that I never deviate from:
    #1 - I always buy new rotors; I never cut the old ones.

    #2 - I buy new rotors every time I install new brake pads. (I am very easy on brakes on my Trailblazer and with good pads, I might need brakes every 120,000 kilometers or so)

    #3 - I buy only the top of the line premium rotor. (I used NAPA Ultra Premium coated rotors on the rear, and will probably use the same the next time I need the fronts done. The coating still looks good a year after installation, in spite of a cold winter here in Canada.)

    #4 - I will never install cross-drilled rotors. They are fine if you want the look but the best one can say about them are that the really good ones don't detract from braking performance too much. ALL CROSS-DRILLED ROTORS COMPROMISE PERFORMANCE. Even the well made ones that don't drill through the vanes.

    They are not needed to "vent gases from under the pad," "help cool the rotor" or any of the other bullshit you hear all the time from the manufacturers of them. They are ONLY for looks.

    It is impossible for a hole going laterally through a rotor to pass ANY air whatsoever, so the whole "cooling" effect is just a fallacy. If you don't believe me, tell me how an airliner can take off with dust on its wings and land with dust on its wings. There is something called boundary air layer, and fluid dynamics experts scoff at cross-drilled rotors. One needs MASS to keep brakes cool, and SWEPT AREA to perform to their potential. Cross-drilling rotors compromise both.

    By the way, for those who want to argue physics and facts, just trust that police cars never use cross-drilled rotors, NASCAR doesn't allow cross-drilled rotors and one will never see cross-drilled rotors on brakes on an airliner that has to stop 400 tons of metal in less than one third the distance of a runway. An airliner must be able to rotate to just before liftoff speed (V1) and then brake in the remaining distance without using reverse thrust.

    I just had an interesting discussion with the Raybestos people at a big police trade show in Toronto I was speaking at recently, and they showed me the new line of police heavy duty rotors, pads and calipers. Now I will never install them on my Trailblazer because they are way overkill and I probably wouldn't even get them heated up enough, but trust me, they don't make cross-drilled or slotted rotors for police cars.
     
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  21. rcam81

    rcam81 Silver Supporter

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    I am runnung AC Delco Durastop Professional ceramic pads on my 07 TB and my 07 Grand Prix. I have had zero dust issues on either vehicle.
     
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  22. Chickenhawk

    Chickenhawk Well-Known Member

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    Just to update this thread, I was changing out my winter wheels - hey, I know it's late but I've been away for a few weeks - and that always gives me the opportunity to inspect my brakes and boots.

    I almost wish I hadn't.

    The top-of-the-line grooved rotors I bought for the fronts four years ago (about 40,000 kilometers ago) looked fine on the outside, but when I checked the inside pads, I just about died. The inside pads were chewed almost to the warning tabs. When I pulled the rotor off, I could see why. There was maybe 20% of the surface left for braking. The rest had rusted away in huge chunks, and the rust had gotten under the surface so badly that the shiny surface was starting to peel and de-laminate. What a mess!

    I am pretty easy on brakes and having just gotten through the winter, never used them super hard anyway, so I never noticed that I had lost so much braking ability. Four or five good hard stops would have chewed up the remaining inner pads to the rivets!

    So ... being so anal about brakes, what did I install?

    The rotors were easy - NAPA Ultra Premium coated rotors. My rears have lasted an entire winter without the slightest discoloration on the finish. Besides, it was always a bit disconcerting when I had silver-coated rear rotors but black (and rust) colored front rotors. Now they match! (About $100 Cdn, with a bit of a discount from the local NAPA folks.)

    And the pads? I wanted to try NAPAs top of the line, so I installed Adaptive One pads. (About $140 Cdn.)

    Cutting through the marketing-speak, there is nothing really revolutionary about these pricey pads. They use a bit softer and grabbier inner pad and a bit harder outer pad. This means that the inevitable dust one gets from a softer pad doesn't show up on your wheels. (Not that I care - my wheels are black.)

    This is why they come in a set with the inner and outer pads clearly marked.

    My slider pins were in perfect shape, so I cleaned off the old grease on them and lubed them with proper brake slider pin grease. (Special silicone, non-water soluble grease.) I then used the lube that came with the pads to lube the pad ears and the backsides. (The Adaptive One pads fit MUCH easier than the Akebonos I put in the last time. I just had to line them up perfectly straight and they slipped right in; no tapping with a mallet needed.)

    I cleaned off the new rotors with brake cleaner and then washed them with soap and water. They came clean and well-packaged in plastic, but I'm anal about brakes after all.

    I used a cheap brake caliper tool to depress the pistons back into the bore. I took the cap off the reservoir and monitored the levels, but there was no problem and I didn't need to siphon off any. (I have completely replaced all the brake fluid and flushed the brake lines twice in the past eight years so they were not due again.)

    Once everything was buttoned down and the caliper bracket bolts torqued properly, I took it out to bed the brakes. I made sure to step on the pedal a number of times before starting the engine, and when I pulled out, it all seemed normal. Pedal feels was only very slightly harder than before, and there was no lack of initial bite I once experienced with one brand of aftermarket pads (that I hated, and ended up changing for the Akebonos.)

    I bed new pads and rotors the old school way: warm up the brakes a bit with a few very gentle stops and then brake HARD from 100 kph to 5 kph just to the point of ABS almost kicking in, three times in one minute. Never let it come to a complete stop. Then, let them cool with little to no braking for about 10 minutes at highway speed.

    I LOVE these new pads! They have exactly the feel I want; not grandma and grandpa soft, but not rock hard either.

    And the interesting thing is how rarely we realize the full braking potential of our platform. Those brakes REALLY haul that thing down fast. It is also surprising how most people don't ever brake hard enough even in an emergency. My first two stops could have been another ten feet shorter if I had tried harder.

    I am now a happy man. Thanks to this thread for making me take a closer look at my pads and rotors, and solving a situation before it became a problem. (It also took over half an hour after bedding in the new pads before the rotors were cool enough to touch by the way, which reinforces what I always say about maximizing the mass and the swept area of the rotors by not going with drilled rotors. Plus, after this experience with a top-line grooved rotor, I am avoiding grooves too.)
     
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  23. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    So what brand were the failed rotors? Any pictures?

    My guess are those Ate rotors from Crappy Tire, the ones with the funky wavy lines.
     
  24. Blckshdw

    Blckshdw Moderator

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    That's good info/feedback. I got some Raybestos "professional grade" pads and front rotors 3 years ago. The front rotors are now warped, and I think I'm down to the wear indicators, so it's time for some replacements. I may have a go with the Napa line and see how those do.

    For pads, looks like they have an Ultra Premium OE Ceramic, and an Ultra Premium Severe Duty (slightly cheaper for front pads) I wonder what the differences are. :undecided:

    I know I am hard on brakes sometimes. The OEM ones that were on there when I bought the TB lasted about 3 years as well. Didn't warp, but I let them go far too long before changing them and chewed up the back sides pretty bad. :ugh:
     
  25. Chickenhawk

    Chickenhawk Well-Known Member

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    I would go with the Ultra Premium ceramic OE pad. "Severe duty" is usually just a harder pad that lasts longer but doesn't stop as good or feel as good as most knowledgeable enthusiasts would like. (Think taxi drivers.)

    The Ultra Premium OE ceramic (every pad for Trailblazers should be ceramic, by the way) is their second-from-the-top-of-the-line pad. It is only topped by the Adaptive One pad.

    One of the reasons why I decided on the Adaptive One pad is the way the pads are bonded to the backing plate. It uses a kind of 'waffle' pattern that would prevent a pad from ever peeling off from the plate. I have seen riveted pads fail and even pads with the more modern tabs pressed through the backing plate also fail. This 'waffle' pattern on the Adaptive One (#2 in the diagram on the back of the box, shown here) is exactly the same as what the Raybestos showed me on their new police line of pads and rotors.
    [​IMG]


    Compare the above cutaway photo of the Adaptive One with the Raybestos police brake pad:
    http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magnoliaPublic/home/products/advanced-technology-police-patrol-products/at-police-disc-brake-pads.html

    As for the slotted rotor, they were the top-rated Powerslot rotors (not the Canadian Tire wavy line rotors.) I will have photos next week.

    I don't know if I would describe them as "failed." It is normal for the inside of the rotor to get far more rust on it than the outside. The dust shield helps a bit, but the inside is exposed to a LOT of salty, slushy moisture that does not hit the outside of the rotor (because the outside is protected by the wheel.) The rust chews the crap out of pads; the inside pads wear faster and stop making even contact, and that contributes to even more rust on unused parts of the rotor surface. It is normal for northern climates.

    I knew a slotted rotor would wear pads faster. I just didn't think they would wear THAT much faster. By the way, all the sales talk about how slotted rotors help shave away the glazed surface of the pads, and expose the rotor to a "fresh" pad surface, is just that - sales talk.

    As for properly bedding in new pads and rotors, the procedure I detailed is pretty much what we do with new brakes (or new vehicles) before we take them around the police test track. It seems pretty brutal to get them so hot that you can smell the smoke and you can't touch the rotors for at least half an hour, but it works. There is actually minimal wear; it really shows how hard you have to nail the brakes in an emergency, and it helps form the pads to the rotor surface. Many manufacturers will tell you that such "bedding in" is not needed, simply because they don't want some ma and pa kettle losing control on a backroad while doing this. (If you read the bulletin from Raybestos on their police line web page, you will see almost exactly the same procedure recommended.) The important thing is to not let the vehicle come to a complete stop so the pad doesn't sit in one spot on that red hot rotor during the bedding in. This is why it is better to do this on a very quiet rural road, so you can cruise at normal speeds for 10 minutes afterwards with little or no braking required.

    I also know the results of good police brakes on good police cars. When I track-tested the 2014 Dodge Charger Police, with the vastly-improved brake system, the race driver who was initially showing us around the track scared the heck out of me in the very first corner when I honestly thought we were going to end up in the weeds; he left the braking so late.

    "Great brakes!" was all I could manage to stammer once we got past the first corner.

    Ho looked at me and said, "They all say that."
     
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  26. lint

    lint Well-Known Member

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    I liked the akebono brakes , now I have duralast gold ''lifetime pads'' and the duralast rotors too the only reason I have them, when they go bad I drive 2 miles and get free pads just got new ones 2 months ego ,no sending anything back I dont think they are as good as the akebonos But just a lot easier to deal with, I like simple.
     
  27. Chickenhawk

    Chickenhawk Well-Known Member

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    These are the Powerslot rotors after 7 years and 70,000 kilometers of Canadian winters. This is the inner side, where the pads were only contacting about 20% of the surface. The rest was chunks of rust that were tearing the pads down to nothing.

    Powerslot rotor at 72k.jpg

    I have never believed in cross-drilled rotors, simply because the science has never supported the marketing claims. I wanted to try a top-rated slotted rotor, but you can see that it has worn the pads away quickly on the inside as soon as the rust began to take hold. The only contact with the pads was the shiny surface near the middle. The rest is chunks of rust and deposits left on the rotors from the disintegrating brake pads.

    My truck does not do a lot of miles, so this rust is not that unusual. The OEM rotors had similar rust at about the same mileage, but there was no chunks missing and the braking surface was not peeling away in flakes.

    OEM rotors 70k.jpg

    These are what I installed. I expect the coating to be much more resistant to rust.

    NAPA Ultra Premium rotors box.jpg
     
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  28. aaronbtb

    aaronbtb Well-Known Member

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    If you like to replace your rotors every 3 years, and have very squeeky brakes buy the brakemotive brand garbage.
     
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  29. BlazingTrails

    BlazingTrails Banned

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    Just curious. Did you join this site just to talk bad about brake motive? you made 2 posts about them and didn't post in the introductions thread or anywhere else. Do you work for another brake parts company?

    If that's not the case and you legitimately had those problems, then you did not install your brakes correctly.
     
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  30. djthumper

    djthumper Administrator

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    I was just noticing this same thing. Including the waking of a thread that was last replied to two years ago. Not a very good start as a new member to a forum.
     
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  31. Chickenhawk

    Chickenhawk Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Brakemotive seems to have a good reputation in these forums and as far as I can see, they are a high quality rotor. While I don't believe there are any advantages to drilled or slotted rotors, I think any slight decrease in braking ability over good-quality solid rotors is negated by them being immediately better than existing worn-out or rusted rotors.

    If someone wanted to do cross-drilled for the looks, I would say a high quality cross-drilled rotor like Brakemotive would certainly be better than a low-quality solid rotor.

    As far as the pads are concerned, i think there are better ones on the market ... but then again, I am very sensitive to the feel of my brakes, and the pad contributes a lot to the actual feel.
     
  32. vipergg

    vipergg Well-Known Member

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    I'm still on the factory pads at 85000 miles. This amazes me , i have never had brakes go more than 45000 on any car. Needless to say I will go ac delco if I can find them.
     

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