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NEED A "SPUN-STUD" Rescue

Discussion in 'Wheels & Tires' started by MRRSM, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    The Key Question without the dialogue is highlighted at the bottom:

    Yesterday afternoon on a tangent TB Engines thread, I was armpit deep in the quicksand of my $85,000.00 GM 4.2L Engine Head R&R when my son called as said, "Dad I've got a FLAT on the 03' Silverado and I am late for work..." So I played TAXI and today got an early start by changing his tire... but I noticed that one of the wheel nuts was very hard to unwind and it stayed that tight, almost all the way out to the start of the threads... I thought, "Hmmmm... what kind of card-carrying Idiot winds up cross-threading a wheel nut that an infant could put on and NOT FUBAR it by cross-threading the nut all the way down?" Anyhow, I wanted to get the tire change done and unfortunately... when I was putting the spare tire on the hub, I did NOT put the same FUBARed Nut back on that FUBARed Stud that was originally in place as a doomed pair. And of course now, in perfectly clear hindsight, I realize THAT would turn out to be a very bad idea.

    So I buttoned it all up up and my son wanted to go to the local Goodyear place in spite of my suggestion to the contrary. The Yo-Yo at Goodyear laid the obviously flat truck tire on the deck, and then struck what must be his interpretation of a thoughtful pose and said absolutely nothing for about three minutes. I finally stopped this nonsense when he said, "Corporate will not allow me to patch your tire because of...blah...blah...blah.." I said, "Let's go son...were done..." and headed over to my favorite spot for tires in Pinellas County... "AK" Tires... No Bells... No whistles... No "Bravo Sierra"... Just tires...Quick and Dirty...and You get the same HQ or LQ tires if you prefer for a fraction of what the "Big Tire Boys" charge.

    So when we arrive, I ask the young kid working there to patch the inside of the flat tire...and to keep the offending steel Dry Wall screw as a memento. Then I suggested that we should Talk Turkey about getting new rubber all around. He jacks up the truck and using his beat up old air powered Walmart Subway Sandwich sized air tool and spins off a handful of the nuts... until the very last one... which suddenly sounded like a jet plane taking off. I watched him continue until he realized that the Nut & Stud were spinning endlessly in the wheel. He tried everything including breaking and ruining his cheap shop Angle Grinder and finally he was completely defeated. I told him its okay... whoever owned the truck B4 did something stupid that was adding to my "Mission Creep" woes. I had him re-install the other well behaved nuts and air up the spare and went in to the office to order all new tires. In the meantime, I stopped by Harbor Freight on the way home and loaded up with a better quality 7" Angle Grinder & a stack of discs to finish what the kid started back at the house later on. My problem is that he and the other dude had tried desperately to get that nut off by accident and wound up wallowing out stud hole and all the mating surfaces.

    Now that I have the new grinder, I can finish the job of grinding off the nut remnants and remove from the golli-wogged stud and then just push it out the back of the wheel hub without too much more trouble. But I am a little uncertain as to whether the hub is damaged enough to warrant a complete replacement and if so... what does that repair entail and, if it comes down to cases, what do I need to do the entire repair? So... I am all ears on this one...
     
  2. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Depends if it's the hole that's damaged or egged out or the stud's knurling that wore off. Try a new stud and if it goes in tight, you're good to go. If not, maybe you could tack weld it on the hub.
     
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  3. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    @Mooseman I'll get a better look after I can grind it free, Moose, and THANKS! I very much like your idea of spot welding a new one back in there! I suppose Autozone must sell replacement stud/nut combos and I'd have to put a stack of washers along the length of the stud and tighten down the new nut to make it straight and true along its length before zapping it with my MIG welder.

    I was also just wondering how much work it would be if I have to replace it. I'm assuming that the assembly involves opening up the Diff and then pulling the center pin-lock bolt and then yanking out the "C" Clip stop and sliding in a whole new axle through the Timken Bearing? I had to do that to convert a 1994 Camaro from Drum Brakes over to having Corvette LS1 Brakes. It was awful nice when I finished... but not much of a picnic having to play Chinese Checkers with the spider gears, 90 weight gear oil mess, and the necessary RTV on the cover. (Okay... I have got to say the WHOLE expression at least once here in print: RTV = ROOM TEMPERATURE VULCANIZING RUBBER. I have been meaning to memorialize this at least once before I die because we use too many TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) and that creates a problem of understanding for each new generation of mechanics coming up... Over time... all TLAs can lose all their MEANINGS .)

    By the way... I felt so bad for the kid that ruined his tools and failed that I swung over to Harbor Freight and picked him up a fairly decent replacement 4.5" Angle Grinder...some discs, a Basic Set of Cold Chisels and a Lil' Fat stubby Handled Sledgey Hammer and just dropped the tools off to him with a word that "A Mechanic is only as Good as The Tools He Works With..." Yeah... that was cool...
     
  4. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Didn't see that it was the rear. Yeah, you'd have to replace the axle. Not a bad idea to replace the seal. Same deal as your 94 Camaro. I don't think you need to play around with the spider gears.
     
  5. littleblazer

    littleblazer Gold Supporter

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    I believe you drop the c-clip and it slides out. There's a video on YouTube of a guy rebuilding his iirc.
     
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  6. BlazingTrails

    BlazingTrails Banned

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    If it was mine I would lay a quarter bead on it and call it a day. All you are doing is keeping it from turning. 'IF' it ever broke again just grind it off and do the same thing again :yes:

    Also helps to apply a very small amount of anti seize compound to the studs, you get a more accurate torque measurement from your wrench and also they do not get stuck. I run my lugs on with a cordless impact drill, then torque them to spec. A lot of people fail to realize that the mating surface of the lug nut to the wheel is what holds it tight, it is NOT nor should it be the threads.
     
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  7. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Just an FYI for anyone else facing this problem... Autozone sells the OEM Quality, Vehicle Specific and Non-Specific Dorman Studs and seem to have a bewildering array of SAE and Metric Studs of varied lengths and applications. When I have seen them first hand and confirmed the actual Part Numbers for the GMT Silverado Series... I'll edit this information with an update.
     
  8. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    In the case of the 1994 Camaro... I was rolling the rear wheels to an fro by hand to try and get a handle on the "C" Clips... when suddenly, the center dowel pin slipped out and conked me like a ball peen hammer blow, right in the mouth. I had removed the slender 9.8 lock-in bolt just before that and no matter which way I turned the damned thing, the hypoid gears and their thrust washers (I call them Hershey's Gearbox Kisses because of their shape) had to be completely removed in order to be able to pull the drive-shafts inward far enough to be able to finally dislodge the "C" Clips.

    I was under the back end of the car so long while trying to get all of that HW back in place, that I finally just had to close my eyes and do everything by muscle memory and parts feel....and eventually, I finally got lucky and as soon as I got it right, I slid that locking pin home as fast as I could before it all fell apart. The problem with the F-Body Series is that their fairly sophisticated anti-slip limited slip differential does not leave very much room to move the complex gearing around. I was only able to appreciate what all that labor accomplished when I was soft pedaling the newly installed LS1 Brakes and enjoying how easily and smoothly things came to a halt.
     
  9. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    I am definitely going to put a very small dab of some Permatex Copper Anti-Seize on ALL of the bolts' threads. And if the install of the new stud still turns... my marginal welding skills will only be challenged for the length of a N0.2 Pencil Eraser!
     
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  10. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    If you have a 2003 Chevrolet Silverado 2X WD 1500 and need the RIGHT Wheel Studs in quantity... This looks like a pretty good deal... (Ten Per Box)

    Dorman P/N 610-428
    M14 X 1.5 X 65.4 MM
    KNURL = 15.70 MM

    I could not swear to it... But I suspect THESE are the right ones too for a few more flavors of GMTs...

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RNB-610-428/
     
  11. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    There may be oversized ones with the same bolt/nut configuration but a bigger knurled part. Maybe from another brand truck (Ford, Dodge, Toyota). That could work.

    Btw, everywhere that I have read and seen says to never use any kind of lubricant or antiseize on wheel studs as this could allow them to get loose. If we remove them often enough, they won't seize. But do use some around the middle of the wheel hub as this is where the wheel seizes to the hub. Same for brake disks and drums.
     
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  12. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    @Mooseman As soon as you mentioned the information about the Axle Rust Welding the "Salad Bowl" Dish of the Disc to the Face Plate .... The Mechanical Gods of The Universe ...Looked down upon me ...and laughed! But I BEAT them at their own game (see Highlighted Solution) Oh yeah... and here is an Old Trick of mine to ensure a good spline lock on the Wheel Stud... is to cut thin steel strips from a Cat Food Can and just drape them into the wallowed out hole on the axle plate from the back side and then insert the New Stud and draw it in very slowly... That will work, too!

    Okay... Here is how things developed starting with picking up the truck at around 7:45 AM and finishing solving the Stud problem at around 11:00 AM then driving over to AK Tires in Clearwater and getting all new Cooper "Shoes". This is how I managed to sort it all out:

    Jacked and Stacked the Silverado with wheel chocks because my driveway is sloped.
    HF Impact Wrench & 7/8" Socket removed the 5 remaining Acorn Lug Nuts
    HF 7" Cut-off Wheel Ground down 2.5 sides of the Acorn Lug on the Failed Stud
    HF Chisels whacked on Lug-nut with 3 Lb Sledge until the weakened nut cracked into 3 pieces
    Bad Stud FELL BACK INSIDE ENCLOSED BLIND AREA & REQUIRES MORE TO REMOVE
    Pulled off Spare Tire... DON'T FORGET TO RELEASE THE PARKING BRAKE!

    Now all of this was completed in the first 30 minutes or so... but now the fun starts at 0830 AM:

    Unbolted major Brake Support Bracket (2-18MM Bolts) Lifted Off Brake Caliper Unit
    Tried to pull off the "Salad Bowl" Disk Brake from the Axle: Nope!... Rusted on SOLID!
    TACTIC #1: Pulled hard circumferentially on the outer edges of the disk: Nope!
    TACTIC #2: Sprayed CRC Freeze-Off around the base of the Studs and the Center Axle: Nope!
    TACTIC #3: Sprayed CRC Freeze-Off and Struck the Flat Areas of Disk with Sledge: Nope!
    TACTIC #4: Sprayed CRC Freeze-Off & Struck Back of Disc w/ Sledge on Wood Block: Nope!
    TACTIC#5: Inserted 2-18MM Bolts threaded thru mount holes 2 PUSH DISC OUT = YES !
    "Salad Bowl" came off easily, Scotch Bright on inside dish of disc & Recovered Bad Stud.
    Tidied up with Brake Cleaning Solvent and Installed Original Tire with the Flat Patched
    Arrived at AK Tires at 11:30 AM... Brand New Coopers on and Just Fine by 12:30 PM

    Stud Problem? Nope! Have All New Gold Cadmium OEM Acorn Nuts and OEM Studs coming!

    Oh... I almost Forgot,,, Kris at AK- Tires appreciated me replacing the tools and HW his mechanics broke while trying to help me out here... so he knocked $80.00 off the Final Bill!

    "So Shines a Good Deed... Upon Weary World..."
     
  13. Mooseman

    Mooseman Moderator

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    Good job! I have had occasions where even using bolts in those holes didn't work and would just strip, so much they were welded on there with rust. I have had to resort to a large 3 jaw gear puller and a few BFH hits on it to free it.
     
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  14. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    It has been a long time since I've had to work so hard at "persuading" two pieces of Ferrous Metal to come apart! This is just about the worst kind of "Mission Creep" repair I've ever had that would take up so much of my time and energy and become such a huge distraction... and so... Until the bags of New Acorn Lug-nuts and OEM studs arrive, its back to the Salt Mines for me... and the "85,000.00 TB Head R&R"...
     
  15. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Okay... These items came in late this evening and I just wanted get the images of the Dorman Wheel Studs along with their Box-Ends for the documentation of the Part Numbers and a shot or two of the Gold-Cadmium Plated Lug-Nuts posted before I forgot. I shot these next to a Tape Measure for posterity, just in case anybody wants to know their dimensions and what these things look like in all views. I'm guessing that some time after Thanksgiving, I'll pull off that Right Rear Wheel and Disc that has only (5) Studs/Lug-Nuts installed and R&R all six. For the sake of brevity, I'll replace all 4 -6 Lug Sets on the Silverado ... one wheel at a time and stagger the job(s) so I won't have to lose my mind while doing them all at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  16. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Here are a few useful procedural videos on “How To Replace Axle Studs”.



    I also like this video because it is so very comprehensive. However, like the OP on the film... I don't necessarily agree with the “Beating the Hell Out of the Stud Ends with Three Pound Sledge Hammer” Technique , only because if you get too enthusiastic and wind up catching the stud off angle, you can end up with a glancing blow that might bend the stud badly or hit the axle face hard enough to do damage the roller bearing HW underneath. The better suggestion is to replace all of your old dinged-up .semi-cross-threaded lug-nuts at the same time and just lube the studs first and use a few of the Old L-Ns threaded even with the nose of the stud and then... wail away to your hearts content.


    And of course... NOT to put an “Eric the Car Guy” Instructional Video on this subject in with this mix of multimedia help would be tantamount to sacrilege!


    And last but not least, a mechanic properly using the “Flush Lug-Nut with The Hammer” Technique:


    Right now... I'm just waiting for my son to have enough spare time for us to get all the old Stud/Lug-Nut fasteners off the 2003 Silverado and get the new stuff installed. This will give me some peace of mind and that is the thing about doing repairs properly... once they're done...you can scratch that problem off of your long list of 'I-Really-Need-To-Do-This” Jobs for a very long time afterwards. In the mean time... I'm also trying to get my hands on a proper Axle Stud Press to use instead of my Three Pound Sledge.
     
  17. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Okay... It's 4:30 AM... Couldn't sleep... thought I would poke around and try to find a proper Stud/Puller/Pusher Tool...something under the usual $300-$400.00 range for such items and I managed to find this Brand New K&M tool on sale on eBay for about half of what most of them being offered cost elsewhere. You might well ask me, "Bobby... Why should I bother making this purchase when my Three Pound Sledge hammer and Very Strong Right Arm would seem more than capable of doing this job." Well... just consider that I will be R&Ring all 4- 6 Lug-Nut & Stud Sets on the '03 Silverado... using my H-F 1/2" Electric Impact Gun and this D-Clamp Tool Set designed specifically for the purpose somehow makes more sense. It is worth a word or two for anybody who ever has to borrows tools from Autozone or other places that loan tools to take the extra minute needed to have the Counterman actually open the OEM orange case and pull out each and every tool and check them before you bounce!

    I borrowed an OEM Axle Bearing Puller from Autozone without doing this careful check and wound up having to buy the tool... because the last "TOOL" that borrowed the damned thing broke it in half and then used Liquid Metal Adhesive and some filthy grease to conceal the damage. He was too clever by a half when he brought it back and then Counterman in that instance opened the kit, saw all of the pieces in place and just closed the lid and put it back on the shelf. THAT was a very expensive lesson for me and real study in human nature for the Yo-Yo who left me to Twist in the Wind after he Twisted that Tool in Half.

    Anyhow... Besides looking over these tools on the rare occasions that I need them... I also make a habit of spraying them down with Brake Cleaner, wiping all the oily filth and Mung off of them that the last inconsiderate SOB left behind...and if it happens to be a tool designed with ANY AND ALL threaded pieces... I ALWAYS USE A VERY GENEROUS AMOUNT OF MOLYBDENUM DI-SULPHIDE HIGH PRESSURE GREASE ON EVERY INCH OF THE THREADS!. Taking a bone dry or dirty tool and throwing it at the work at hand is just asking for trouble. Using a High Pressure Lubricant on tools that must endure repeated high torque turning will make the job much easier on the mechanic and lessen the chances of either damaging the new parts being installed or ruining the tool before the job can be completed. Harbor Freight sells MOLY-D GREASE for under Five Bucks in Tubes and Containers:

    http://www.harborfreight.com/sta-lube-moly-graph-lithium-grease-40712.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  18. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Even with the passage of time since the original post... I have kept my eyes open and ear to the ground to be mindful of any related, supporting information or multi-media that deserves to be added to a topic one would have thought by now...to be absolutely and totally covered... 'From Studs... To Nuts".

    But THIS video is such a stand-out on the matter for more than a few reasons beyond what an absolute joy it is to observe a Mechanic... demonstrating common sense enough to "RTFM" and who also approaches his mechanical difficulties with care and caution that extends even to how he gently and respectfully he treats his tools "at every turn"... and admonishing others to do likewise or risk... as he puts it:

    "Winding up with a Whole Set of NEW Problems to Deal with..."


    He also seems like a man possessed of reflection, and all the while he is either up to his neck in mechanical breakdowns on a farm somewhere...or involved in doing mechanical repairs in some far off industrial setting. These possibilities are clearly in evidence by the "cracked skin" and worn down conditions his hands are imbued with... black oil and much embedded dirt due to an unending need to use his hands with tools... and his beaten and worn down fingers... to fiddle fasteners in and out of so much broken down machinery.

    His mechanical character and pedigree aside... He manages to make a mundane and difficult job almost hypnotic on film for us to shadow him as he methodically solves an otherwise impossible and intractable job: Removing Over-Tightened McGard Wheel Locks from a Volvo. And the object lesson that is worth thinking about is for people who use these Anti-Theft Devices, seldom imagining that after backing into brackish or salt water time and again... or barrelling down streets laden with the brown mushy recipe of brown snow and ice mixed with a liberal dose of Road Salt... that when the Rust and Corrosion follows...their Rims will Prisoners to their Axles! So it does not require much of a leap in imagination to consider 'What would I do if I got a Flat Tire out here in the Woods..and could NOT get that damned wheel off? And in this regard, this interesting video is fair game to observe and learn from.

    The last aspect of this video that is particularly amusing and entertaining is that at one point in his efforts... he produces a tool that Ridley Scott and H.R. Giger (May God Rest Hans Rudi's Strange Soul...IF he managed to Breach the Gates of Heaven) who must have concocted in relation to the shape, colour and power of the 4th-in-line of developing antagonist Xenomorphs from the movie "Alien". If everyone here does not... at the very least chuckle when it makes its appearance in the storyline... let alone LOL... Then you live a joyless life and are devoid of one scintilla of having any sense of humour. :>)

    And now after all that prelude... Please enjoy:


    And with ALL DUE RESPECT to the Hard Work being done in the Last Video... THIS method might actually work a LOT Easier and Faster...and it come from "IMSTRICKEN06" with his other videos at ImSticken06.com :

     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
  19. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    Just a small Off Topic Postscript:

    PS... I LOVE THIS GUYS S/S WATCH (mostly that BAND!) ---^--- Judging from the FOSSIL name embedded on the Double Locking mechanism...I'm guessing that it probably runs for about Two Bills state side ... I just can't dope out what the rest of the "facial features" look like well enough to nail down the Model Number of it...DAMN!
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  20. MRRSM

    MRRSM Gold Supporter

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    If you've seen "IMSTRICKEN06" doing his great video on What Happens to Synthetic Motor Oil when it gets REAL cold and how to save your engine from destruction by using "0W-30" Mobil1 Motor Oil... then you will enjoy this interesting video on an Inexpensive Harbour Freight Tool that can finally answer the question:

    "Did the Tire Jockeys that just put Brand New Tires on my Truck... Over-Torque all the Fasteners on The Studs...?"

    This seemingly simple question is really not very easy to answer without using this device or something that has similar features. Of course... many will ask their own question in response:

    "Why should I care whether or not they Over-Torqued my Lug Nuts... They come as Acorn Fasteners that CANNOT be "Over-Tightened"... Right?"

    Hmmmm... Well... Maybe not. Just ask anybody who has had Unexplained, Repeat Wheel Bearing Failures...or serious ABS problems...which can be "traced" back to one or more Wheel Studs being tightened so much...that it causes the very structure of the Cast Iron Bearing Housing to warp completely out of shape! This video casts a great deal of light on an EASY way to figure out what the condition of these fasteners are and to ensure they are all properly Torqued Down:

    Imstricken06 reviews the Harbour Freight Digital 1/2” Torque Meter:


    And MORE details from another VOP:




    His Mobil1 "Frozen Oil" Video...
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=imstricken06+oil&t=hd&ia=videos&iai=VdZ9vCXh_50
     

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