Let the fun begin...pulled the head on my 4.2L

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midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
What's up everyone. My name is Justin. I own two '05 Trailblazers, 2wd & 4wd, and a 2001 Blazer 2wd 4dr. The 2WD trailblazer had a horrible miss on #1 and 70% leak down. Determination was a burned exhaust valve. Time to pull the head. Fun.


I started a thread over at Trailvoy.com with very little response. Didn't know that place was so dead. Then, tonight I ran across the 85k Trailblazer repair thread during a Google search so here I am.

At this time, I have the head in my Blazer, getting ready to put it back on when I get back to the shop next week. Thankfully, I only broke 2 head bolts during disassembly. I still need to remove those. Nothing got done on the truck this week. I had a death in the family.

I stayed home Tuesday and my dog got deathly sick the same day. She was a 13 yr old chocolate lab named Babe. Her health was declining so I knew she wasn't going to be around much longer but this was sudden and unexpected. And she never recovered. So I had to put my best friend to sleep on Wednesday. I've only slept a couple of hours each night since. I stayed up with her all of Tuesday night, as well. Tried to work on it yesterday but it was useless.

Anyway. Here's my thread over at trailvoy. I'll copy what I posted in the 85k thread over here, also.

Thanks!
 

Boricua SS

Member
Nov 20, 2011
3,080
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sounds like a rough few weeks for sure man. I just lost my German Shepherd on Jan 9th to a tumor and a stroke. I had her for 10 years so I feel your pain...

You're in the right place now. Welcome aboard :tiphat:
 

midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
Thanks yall!

Got a quick question. What size are the smaller head bolts? I need the smaller thread cleaning tap and don't know what size to order. For some reason M8x1.25 keeps popping in my head but I have a feeling that's wrong.

Thanks
 

midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
Well I've ordered 2. I kept coming across a different size, M10x1.50, during my searches, so I ordered both the M8 tap I listed previously and the M10x1.50

I also came across M6x1.00 but that one just didn't seem to be correct.

I looked through pages of MRRSM's Photobucket account and went through quite a few different threads, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
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m.mcmillen

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Apr 29, 2016
554
Wisconsin
M6X1.00 is correct
 

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midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
I pulled up the same diagram and saw that it was, in fact, M6x1.00 which is the one I didn't order. Thanks for confirming my findings. Guess I'll be sending these back when they get here. Is a thread cleaning tap needed for the smaller M6 bolts?

I was looking at the bolt extractor kit, EN-47702 and realized that you can buy those pieces separately. I didn't realize that or I would've probably bought the drill guides, EN-47702-1 & EN-47702-2, for $30 each and sourced the rest of the kit myself. I still need to remove the 2 broken head bolts from the block and I had a long weekend, so I've been trying to get prepared. Amazon ducked up an order, though, so that's been delayed.

When I bought the M11x2.00 tap, it was listed as in Stock and available for Prime. I ordered it, upgraded to 1 day shipping for $4 and expected it to be here no later than Wednesday, if accounting for the holiday on Monday. The email says I won't receive it for an estimate of 5 days. I emailed Amazon and asked what the issue was. Their response was that they were actually out of stock and waiting for the seller to send them more to restock. The next morning, which is today, I'm looking for another tap when I notice a M11x2.00 tap at the bottom of the page. Click it and it's the people I purchased from. "This item is in stock" yet it's gonna be 3 days before I receive my tool. So I email them. They tell me that they have those in stock so they're not on backorder and it must be something wrong with the address or credit card and to contact Amazon. I kindly replied that I had already spoken with Amazon and they said they were out of stock and waiting on more product from you(the seller, Ship-it ASAP). Even though it has said that this tool has been in stock the entire time. I finally asked if it was possible that there was already another shipment on the way to Amazon to replenish their stock, and if not, whether they could find out when one would be because I needed that tool ASAP. Not 5 days later on a tool thats supposed to be in Stock. Waiting on their reply now. I haven't been rude with them or anything. I just want to know what's up. Why and how there was such a snafu on something so simple.

Sigh...I have a headache lol.


At this point, it looks like I may have everything I need by next Monday if I'm lucky. I really should've planned this better. I'm not in a bind or anything so I have time to wait. But I AM ready to get this thing back together and see how it runs.
 

mrrsm

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I'm sorry for coming so late to this particular clean-up portion of your work... but there are a few tool expressions being used here that involve bolt-hole-making tools that can either help or destroy the Engine Block if the wrong ones get chosen. I'm hoping that it is merely a question of Semantics in the use of these expression here... but the difference between a TAP and a Thread-Chaser is similar to comparing a Razor Blade to a Butter Knife with the vulnerable facial skin vs. the softness of the metal of an Aluminum Engine Block being one and the same … and at risk of serious potential damage of being "Shaved".

The Tool of Choice for cleaning out the Head Bolt Holes is neither a Standard Tapered Thread-Cutting Tap… nor an equally sharp Bottoming Tap: The only acceptable tool for Thread-Chasing the M11X2.00MM Head Bolt Holes a very rare species made by ARP (Model #912-0011) as shown below. Please note that the outer edges of this ARP Thread-Chaser are Flat and almost Square so as to meet the Inclined Thread Grooves close enough therein to grab all the Old Oil, Loc-Tite and Dirt and scoop that stuff out and into the 45 degree flutes cut into the ARP Tool... and not remove any additional metal.

This item is actually made for the GM LS Engine Block and is quite expensive at around $60.00 ... but I could not locate any OTHER substantial or less expensive substitute tool for doing this job correctly. If you have no other choice... avoid using any Gun Boring Brushes or their ilk... and please refrain from using an Old Surviving Head Bolt... as you run the risk of damaging the remaining Bolt Thread Lines in each hole. This is because all of the surviving Old Bolts will have been stretched enough during their extraction process to gouge into each Thread Line and damage the (14) Large Bolt Holes inside of the block. It will help to use "Canned Air" to frequently spray out the bolt holes and also to remove any detritus collecting inside of the ARP Tool Flutes to ensure the best possible clean-out of them all:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001T6EP82/?tag=gmtnation-20

ARPCLEANOUT2.jpg BOLTEXTRACTION20.jpg
 
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midnightbluS10

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I apologize for that. 912-011 is the one I ordered.

Like you, I couldn't locate it anywhere else except the ARP version.

One guy was trying to say I could just use a standard tap and there wasn't really any difference. Lol. I know better than that as I learned what the differences are between a bottoming tap, thread chaser, etc... Unfortunately, I continued to call the one I need by the wrong name. I attribute that to seeing it called a thread chasing tap, so it just got shortened to tap for typing sake. My mistake.
 
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Sparky

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Dec 4, 2011
12,927
See this is something I didn't know. When I swapped my rear axle and needed to clean out the yoke bolt holes (some built-up rust from sitting was keeping the U joint bolts from threading in cleanly) I just went, got a thread tap, and went to town on it. Seemed to do the job as my driveshaft never flew off the rear axle
 
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midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
Quick question.

Do I actually need the M6x1.00 thread chaser?
 

mrrsm

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If you can "Flashlight, Magnify and Eyeball" the threads well enough and aerate the hole and nothing is there to block or confuse things when the New TTY Bolts are installed... then ...No... But ... if you want to be thorough... Amazon sells Metric Thread Chasing Kits like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XJ48V0/?tag=gmtnation-20
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
When I did the valve job/DOD delete on my 5.3L, I used an old head bolt with a couple of angled slits ground in with a Dremel. Used some WD40 while cleaning the threads and used compressed air afterwards, worked like a charm.
 
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midnightbluS10

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Thanks for the suggestions. Between the kit and a ground down bolt, I should be able to get those small holes cleaned up.

Now what kind of drill bits will drill through those bolts? I swear I saw that MRRSM used a cobalt drill bit kit from Harbor Freight? Is that correct? I went and bought that kit, if so. I swear I read that somewhere. I tried to drill a small pilot hole with a 7/64 bit and it barely scratched the surface. Do I just need to keep at it? In the 6 years I've done this professionally, I've only snapped one bolt and that was at my first job as a technician. I didn't drill it out, either. The senior tech did. So Ive never really had to do this.

Thanks.

Edit: should I have been using some sort of cutting fluid or wd40 or something?
 
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mrrsm

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"See this is something I didn't know. When I swapped my rear axle and needed to clean out the yoke bolt holes (some built-up rust from sitting was keeping the U-Jjoint bolts from threading in cleanly) I just went, got a thread tap, and went to town on it. Seemed to do the job as my drive-shaft never flew off the rear axle..."

@Sparky ... The difference in this case is very significant... The Drive Shaft Differential Yoke is made out of either Cast Iron or Steel and those ferrous metals do not need the fastidious care that anything made of Aluminum with threaded holes require. There is little room for making such errors on the GM Atlas Engine Block.

I took the trouble and expense to buy a complete set of Cobalt Bits... but you do not need to take such drastic action. Any Good HSS (High Speed Steel) Set of Drills will do the trick and the idea is use a few frequently refreshed drops of any type of Oil to lubricate your Home Made Drill Guide and to cool down and lube the Drill Bit cutting ends. Don't go too fast with your drill speed and do not use excessive pressure to help the cutting action.

Next you should make frequent stops from drilling to plug in a small Telescoping Magnet inside of the Bolt Holes to fish out and grab all of the Razor Edged, "Blued Steel" Metal Spall and Shavings out of the holes. You will need to do this before they can pile up, jam up the Drill and Drill Guide and Cut into the adjacent areas at the top of the holes in the Engine Block, gouging out Aluminum that needs to be protected from such damage. This problem develops very quickly... so stopping to check "frequently" means just that.

These actions will give the HSS Drill Bit(s) the chance to cool down and you can avoid damaging the areas adjacent the Bolt Holes or make the mistake of dropping any steel junk bits down inside of the open holes on and into the engine. Since you only have 2 or 3 Bolt Shanks to contend with... Cover or Tape off the areas nearby with Blue Painter's Masking Tape and spare yourself the hassle of having a very complicated clean-up when all of the bolt holes have finally been vacated.

Snap-On sells a Very Nice "HSS Drill Bit Kit" at Home Depot or Lowes for a very reasonable price that will be more than adequate. Remember that you are not trying to dig too deeply into these Bolts or take out huge cores here... just enough to get a "Good Bite" on their 'innards" and either use a comparable sized Reverse Drill Bit ...or a Carbide Easy Out of similar sizing to coax things along.
 
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midnightbluS10

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I already bought the Cobalt bits. I needed some anyway. I have a feeling I was using too much pressure, as well. I'll give it another shot today when I get to the shop.

Got my thread chaser last night, also. So I can get the bolt holes ready for the new bolts now. Got a #4 and #5 spiral EZ Out to use and a parts store across the street if I need a different one. Hoping this goes quick. I'm ready to get this thing moving.


Thanks for the suggestion to keep shavings out of the engine. I completely missed that yesterday when I attempted to drill the first one. Thankfully I didn't get anywhere with it. Last thing I need is shavings all in my engine. I'll be sure to cover everything up today. Can't believe I missed that.


I took at good look at the wedge tool yesterday, also. I'm pretty sure it's not in position...at least compared to the pic on the tipsheet I saw. so I'm going to attempt to lift the latch mechanism and reseat the wedge while a friend keeps the chain pulled up and tight. It's been pulled tight and tied tight to the hood with mechanics wire since it was taken loose. I figure that as long as I keep it tight so no slack can get to the lower timing gear and the chain, it can't get loose enough to jump over a tooth. Even while reseating the wedge. Does that sound logical? Compared to the following picture, mine isn't as far down. The pin it rests against isnt that high on mine. My wedge isn't wedged as deep. What about others? Do you know where yours is/was in relation to the one in the pic? Just remembered I have a borescope that I can use to get down there and see just where the lower tip of the wedge is, and if it's at gear like the pic shows.

Is it that hard to get it in there? I used a good amount of force by hand to seat it initially and gave it a few good whacks with a mini sledge because I thought, even then, that it wasn't in far enough and I had not seen this picture at that time.


1835978.gif





Thanks
 
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mrrsm

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Well... Here we go again with "Semantics"... but when you use the word "Sledge"... are we talking like the one in the Peter Gabriel Youtube Tune "Sledgehammer"? Because you really are not supposed to "fram" too hard on the Wedge Tool at the end of the Handle to get it into place. The OEM Tensioner may have suffered some damage to the spring loaded locking mechanism and if that is the case... you will know after securing both sides of the Timing Chain by simply pushing in on the Nylon Footpad using the Aluminum wedge to pry it towards the Passenger Side of the engine. If goes easily inside of the body of the Timing Chain Tensioner and comes back out and in ...out and in...without you having to "Lift the Latch"...then that would be a Bad Sign that the Tensioner is NFG anymore. So you will want to eliminate these possible bad outcomes by investigating the workings of Timing Chain Tensioner very thoroughly.

The Spring-Loaded Internal Hydraulic Cylinder behind the Footpad has serrated Teeth that line the bottom side of the cylinder and the locking mechanism in the Tensioner Body is designed to click inside of those teeth as the engine Oil Pressure increases and this prevents the Footpad Tube from retracting back inside of the Tensioner Body. This is necessary to prevent "Chain Rebound" that would occur when the engine RPM dies down...and the Whiplash of the relaxed chain from "jumping the cogs".

If the locking mechanism is damaged and cannot maintain its hold while the engine is under deceleration... the Footpad/Cylinder will relax and the the slack and consequential whiplash in the chain can raise Holy Hell and put the Valve Train at risk from the loss of the normal tension maintained on Timing Chain between on the two Camshaft Sprockets and the Crankshaft. The noise it would make would be scary enough... and the Engine would not be able to idle worth a Damn. This is problem that would require dramatic action soon after or you run the serious risk of some ....Very Bad Things Happening.

The other part that can be damaged by too much hammering is the Black Center Steel Support Pin at the the backside of the Aluminum Wedge that it is supposed to brace against. You should be able to shine a flashlight down inside of that area and ensure that the Black Steel Support Rod is still secure between the inside of the Front Timing Chain Cover where it is held in place by a Tiny Steel Screw and the Front of the Engine Block where the Black Threaded Post screws into it on the opposite end. Hopefully... nothing untoward has occurred.

The best way to describe the difficulty you will face when trying to maintain tension on BOTH sides of the Timing Chain while fishing around the center bottom of the Timing Chain Tensioner with a Bent Piece of Wire strong enough to hook into the Latch with the Hole in the End and pull up to release the Tiny Latch is to say this: While you are doing this job... If there is a Bright Spot in the Center of the Universe for Mechanics to occupy in Valhalla... You will be standing on The Planet that is the Farthest From that Heaven. This part is a Seriously Gigantic, Gold Plated, King-Sized PITA... and all thanks to the Senior Design Engineer... Mr. Ron Kociba at GM ...who thought it was a real good idea to make this job virtually impossible for "The Average Mechanic" ever to tackle. Nuff' Said?
 
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midnightbluS10

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I wasn't wailing on it or anything. Just gave it a few good, decent taps to make sure it was seated. I wasn't hacking away at it or anything. The hammer is your basic wooden handle about 12" long with maybe a 2 or 3 lb head? It's not very big.

I did get the Cobalt bits to drill much better this morning. I thought I could just spin the first bolt piece out with a small punch and hammer, slowly spinning it until it was up enough to be grabbed and unscrewed but it wouldn't go. It would tighten just fine though lol. So I started drilling it and have the first pilot hole done. I'm in no hurry to do this so I apologize in advance if this doesn't move along very quickly.
 

Sparky

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Dec 4, 2011
12,927
No worries about that. It took me weeks to do the valve springs on my Camaro simply because it was a painful process to do (literally) with the engine still in the car, and I have other projects that are "in progress" for about a year now lol.
 

midnightbluS10

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Nice!

Once I finally got the bits to bite and move some metal, they worked great! I'm definitely glad I bought the Cobalt set that MRRSM mentioned in his thread previously. One bit jammed in the hole and wouldnt turn. So I powered through it. I know I shouldn't have but the hole wasn't deep so if the bit broke, there was nothing to drill out. A tiny piece of the bolt shavings shot off and flew by my face, red hot and smoking! The drill couldn't have been doing more than 50rpm at that point. Shocked the heck out of me that it was still cutting through that grade 8 bolt at almost hand speed.
 

midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
Got a pic of the bolt I drilled that I couldn't see. It's the bolt before the one closest to the firewall on the passenger side. So I took my best guess at center and went for it. After putting down a layer of duck tape for protection from metal fragments and from me accidentally gashing up the mounting surface with the drill bit.

Edit: Looking at the pic, I'm hoping that's not what I think it is at the 1 o'clock position. Most of the tape in that area has multiple layers so hopefully it's nothing to worry about.


I took the pic to see where I drilled. Looks pretty good to me.
 

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midnightbluS10

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Bolts are out with no major malfunctions. +2 for me lol. It appears that I've lost my upper chain guide, so I ordered a new one today. That's fine, because the guide broke while the head was being removed. Still, I have no idea where it is. Luckily, I bagged and tagged the bolts, so they were with all of the other fasteners and misc small pieces that were bagged, labeled, and set aside. After doing that the first time on an engine R&R, I do it regularly now. It's so much easier than digging through a collection of 100+ bolts, then trying to remember what went where.

Next up is the tensioner. And possibly pulling the engine if this doesn't go as planned. Ill keep ya updated.


One quick question. What am I lifting? The very small bar that sticks out and almost touches the timing cover or the small arm that is hanging off of it, parallel with the cover mounting surface? I hope that's a good enough description.

edit: when looking at the lower bolt on the tensioner, I'm referring to the mechanism at about the 2 o'clock position with what looks like a chain link shaped arm on it.


1835978.gif





Thanks.
 
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mrrsm

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Justin... Have a look at the series of images I took a while back that show the general design of the spring loaded-hydraulic OEM AC-Delco Timing Chain Tensioner. It really does not matter which type of Strong Wire material you wind up using... as long as you can form a Right Angle Bend with the stuff and the Outside Diameter is large enough to pass easily in and out of the hole in the end of the Lever Lock Release. The chosen metal should not behave as a material that becomes too brittle ...and snaps off the short end.

You can get some ideas from these images of hand made Tools that run the gamut from the Simple to the Complex. My problem ultimately was solved in that I am going to be able to skip this part by pulling the 2002 Engine and replacing it with my 2004 Donor Motor. I'll be able to do the same replacement of the Timing Chain Set after the 2002 Engine is mounted on an Engine Stand. This mechanism deserves to be studied by first obtaining the OEM Replacement and then playing around with it enough to get the look and feel of how it works. In this case ....such "Familiarity will NOT breed Contempt":

http://s557.photobucket.com/user/60...INEREPAIR/TRAILBLAZEREPAIRTOOLS?sort=3&page=1
 

midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
Thank you!

After determining that the tensioner does not move in and out freely with leverage from the wedge and handle, I finally realized that it is, indeed, extended. The pin its braced against is in good shape and nothing looks broken or amiss.

I had no idea there was a hole in the lock release. That makes things much simpler, I think. I was trying to hook the "J" around the actual arm and lift. As you can imagine, I didn't have much luck. I actually just came back in to search for those pictures since I could tell there was something I was missing. Thanks again. You guys have been such a huge help.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
And while pulling on that lever, don't push on the wedge as the pressure from the plunger might prevent you from moving it. I'd just set it ready to go, pull the lever and push the wedge in. It's basically a ratchet mechanism.
 
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midnightbluS10

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Do I push down or pull up once the wire is in the lever? Or a combo of both, working it up and down as it ratchets? Looking at your pics MRRSM, it appears that the lever is is pointing further down towards 6 o'clock rather than moving upwards towards 9 o'clock when the tensioner is in the retracted position.
 

midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
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Shreveport, LA
And while pulling on that lever, don't push on the wedge as the pressure from the plunger might prevent you from moving it. I'd just set it ready to go, pull the lever and push the wedge in. It's basically a ratchet mechanism.

I guess that answers the question. I appreciate it. I really hope this goes well. As soon as lunch is over, Ill be back out there with a buddy of mine to keep the chain tight. I assume that when the tensioner goes in, that little slack gets pulled tight so its basically the same as the top end holding it tight on the cam gears. make sure the wedge is situated and remove the handle?

If that goes smoothly, my plan was to get the head laid back on the block with the gasket and attempt to install the gears and chain back onto the cam with #1 at TDC after securing whatever else needs to be secured to get an accurate representation of where it would be upon reassembly. I figure as long as all of my paint marks still line up, I should be fine and can continue on getting the head attached. And if it doesn't, all i have to do is pick the head up and pull the block instead of figuring out after reassembly that its wrong and has to come out. Any flaws in this plan or things I'm not considering?

thanks
 

mrrsm

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The Tool for Manipulating the Timing Tensioner Latch-Release Lever actions are as follows:

(1) Using some Help holding steady tension on both sides of the Timing Chain... and with the aid of a Good Small Flashlight... With the Foot Pad Plunger Fully Extended... Insert the Short Right Angle of the Hook Tool into the Hole in the Latch-Lock Release Lever where it lays parallel along the Body of the Tensioner. Then... without applying any inward pressure to the Plunger-Foot Pad... Gently Lifting the Lever will relax the Lock-Release Latch.

(2) The Plunger-Foot Pad can then be pushed completely back inside of the Tensioner Body. At the same time... as soon as possible ...the point the Aluminum Wedge with the Beveled Side facing towards the inside Passenger side of the Timing Chain should be introduced as far down as it can go... until the "Forked Tongue End" of the pointy piece rides into one of the teeth of the Small Crankshaft Cog and bottoms out... but NOT into the Timing Chain Links.

(3) Then... Carefully Relax the Lifting Force on the Tool and twist it sideways to get the Right Angle to free itself from the Lever Hole. Don't start a Tug of War by moving the Tool up and down. if its snags...working it a little at a time back and forth will get the Tool to release and then it can removed from the mechanical operating field.

(4) Unscrew the Delivery Handle from the Aluminum Wedge and remove it from the mechanical operating field. When manipulating the two Chain Segment to the Left of and to the Right of the Crankshaft Cog... a Great Deal of Care should be taken NOT to lift the Chain Segments hard enough to disturb or dislodge the Fixated Aluminum Wedge. If it comes loose by accidentally disturbing the Plunger Foot Pad Pressure from pushing on the outside of the Ascending Timing Chain...then the Wedge will pull out...and you''l have to take a deep breath and start all over again.

(5) It is possible to first Lift Up on the Tool and once the Plunger Foot Pad is compressed back inside of the Tensioner Body...and you push DOWN on the Lever-Release-Latch...that the Plunger will LOCK UP inside of the Tensioner Body and stay there until the Right Angle of the Tool is pulled out to allow the Lever to return to its proper position. Normally... the Factory ships this OEM Tensioner in this position with a small Plastic Pin doing the job of holding the Plunger locked inside of the Tensioner Body. So you must avoid Pushing Down on the Tool during these actions, lest the Angle of the Tool slip below the lower Body of the Tensioner and slipping deeper into the Hole in the Lever and lock the device in the compressed position.

(6) Once the Timing Chain is arrayed and installed over the Intake and Cam Phaser Sprockets at the correct Alignment Positions and they are safely inserted into the ends of the Camshafts and the Bolts have been started by hand... Remember to re-insert and carefully thread down the Wedge Tool Handle and extract the Aluminum Wedge from its position in the Crankshaft Cog and remove it from the mechanical operating field.

Best of Luck that you Nail It on the First Try...

 
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midnightbluS10

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As much as I hate to say this, I think Something's wrong. The tensioner will not budge. And I'll be damned if I waste another day on it or possibly a week, then it still possibly be wrong so I'm pulling the block and starting from scratch with the timing. Probably replace the tensioner and guides while I'm in there.

Do I want to pull the block and trans as a unit or separate them since I'll be resetting the timing chain anyway? My thought was to keep them as a unit so I have less to do with setting the timing chain, etc...
 

mrrsm

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Wow... That is some very disappointing news...

Best First Suggestion: Take as Many Before, During and After images as possible. With your Engine Head removed.. .you will have an easier time getting to the ordinarily troublesome Two Top Engine To Transmission Bolts. You will need an organized plan to pull the engine from the top. You should be able to get the motor out without removing the hood. Our other Members and the Haynes Manual should be referred to for anything that relates to the 4X4 tear-down... as I do not have experience since mine is a 2WD and I cannot advise you on this subject.

This is a PITA of an engine to pull and it will be necessary to support the Transmission before the time comes to unbolt it from the motor. Reviewing all of the correlated posts here before getting any more involved will be a good idea and you will have to decide whether or not you want to replace the Oil Pump and Complete Timing Chain Hardware while the front of the engine block is so accessible. It gets very tedious and more expensive from here on out... but the Good News is that you can be guided very well by @Mooseman ... and by the man who conquered this daunting job most recently, @m.mcmillen . They can help you towards a practical conclusion sooner than I can and with a lot less confusion.
 

midnightbluS10

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Feb 18, 2017
104
Shreveport, LA
I have access to AllData(dealer service procedures), the hood was removed to access the broken bolts more easily while I basically climbed onto the engine and took a squatting position to do the drilling. Yes it was quite the site. Also, this is the 2wd that's getting the work done. I apologize if I didn't make that part clear.

Being that I've pulled plenty of rwd GM truck engines, I wasn't expecting this one to be much different. The I6 might give me some hell with the length, but overall I'm expecting it to be very uneventful.

I weighed my options and the pros and cons and right now is the best time to pull it if it's getting pulled so I'm taking this opportunity. My track record, if I had a copy, would should many, many experiences where I did the opposite and it bit me in the ass in the end. For example, on this one, I would end up with the timing off 1 tooth or something would break or whatever. I'm not going through that stuff again. I'm saving myself the aggravation and headache and pulling it. I don't want to but it makes the most sense. Especially since I'm doing this in my Diesel Power Equipment Repair class. I told them 2 weeks and it's been 6. So I'm doing what I feel is best. As much as I don't want to, I am.


Yes, I'm disappointed, too. In myself more than anything. I don't see how I messed this up. Or why I can't get this tensioner to move. I can see an area on the tensioner that's "new" metal...where the tensioner has extended out from the point it was at, which is brown from the engine oil. Its not even 1/4" it looks like. But for the life of me, I can't get it to retract back to that spot. And I'm no dummy lol.


Ugh.


And thinking back, now I'm questioning my installation method of the wedge. Not sure what side of the chain it's on. I've left school and won't be back until 8am to check. Something isn't right. I just don't know what.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Having done both (engine R&R and timing chain), I would opt to leave it in place because both requires the same amount of disassembly to do the same thing except that the engine pull will have in addition to undo more bolts, which some are a real PITA to get at (top bellhousing bolts) and wrestling it out.

But then again, I'd be trying some more to get that tensioner back in. Maybe too much pressure on it from the chain?
 

midnightbluS10

Original poster
Member
Feb 18, 2017
104
Shreveport, LA
Possibly. I'm gonna take another shot at it in the morning. I'm not to the point of aggravation yet, so there's still hope lol.

That was kind of what I was thinking about leaving them as one. I mean, I've got the engine mounts, the driveshaft, trans mount and the trans cooler lines to remove and it should be ready to come out. Maybe engine oil cooler lines? Not sure on those. Everything else is gone already, though, so there can't be much left to remove and get it out. I figured 2 hours max.


And that's what I keep going back to. I can have it out by lunch at the latest, giving myself extra time for any unseen issues. And timing won't be a question. Or I can fiddle with it for a day, a week, and still maybe not be correct. I already wasted 1 day and nothing got accomplished. Instead of doing it again tomorrow, I figure I'll just pull it. And not be stuck in the same spot for the next week.


Or maybe it will act right tomorrow and I can bypass all that.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
You also have to drop the rack, which means you also need to remove that crossmember. The are no engine oil cooler lines. You have to remove the engine mounts and then drop the block onto the other crossmember to access the top bellhousing bolts.

At least you don't have a front diff and axles to contend with. If you feel that confident, then maybe you should just pull it.
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
7,639
Tampa Bay Area
A Good Night's Sleep on it will allow you a Second Wind to take another swing at it's Chin later and see if it will behave. If not... FWIW This Engine is a pleasure to work on when installed on an Engine Stand... and my 2002 to 2004 Donor Engine Post is contemporaneous enough to give you some good pointers and useful information as well.

In the case of the obstructive Low Side AC Line... if you look at the $85K Images...you will see how to avoid having to evacuate the system... I simply loosened the "DD Cup Bra" holding the AC Accumulator and gently lifted the unit upwards and that allowed the item to rotate just enough to relax the short line bolted to the Firewall attachment to the Evaporator Unit and then I was able to coax the long Aluminum Line up and over in front of the engine and then Zip-Tie it in place. If you do that and pull the bolts on the AC Compressor...you can probably move the hardware out of the way down there too. Oh...Don't forget about the Bonding Straps for this motor... The PCM gets kind of wonky in the TB if they don't come off and go back in place just right.
 

midnightbluS10

Original poster
Member
Feb 18, 2017
104
Shreveport, LA
Oh I didn't take any hostages when I pulled the head. I disconnected any line that was in the way. We have a refrigerant recovery machine, also. So that made quick work of the AC lines.

I'm basically in a almost-full(more like half) service shop. There's not any specialty tools for automotive applications but I have most of my tools there that I use to make a living(when I'm actually working) plus things there like a single 12k lb 2-post lift and stuff like recovery machines, battery and alternator testing machines, some diesel specialty tools, a few random hand tools, and movable, 4 post lift that each leg is separate and connected by hydraulic lines. I'm sure there used to be a lot more but it's probably either broken and not been replaced or straight stolen. The shop itself is 150'×100'. Possibly bigger. There's overhead cranes on a rail system and all kinds of stuff.

Anyway. I'm done for the night and will check back in once I get back to school around 8am, another 11 hours.
 
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midnightbluS10

Original poster
Member
Feb 18, 2017
104
Shreveport, LA
So I keep thinking about this tensioner. When I pull up, the arm stays in the upper position without any other action from me. Is it supposed to do that? From the description, it seems like there should be some force on it wanting to pull it back down if I were to release the piece of wire.

So how does the lever work? Do I need to pull up and hold it while I re-insert the wedge? Or will it stay in the upper position by itself?


For some reason, I'm thinking the tensioner is frozen and the lever isn't working correctly, going by previous descriptions.

EDIT: ***The lever itself is extremely difficult to move. I literally have to strain and struggle to move it into the upper position. Same with moving it back to the lower position. It takes me putting something hard between my hand and the wire so I can push down without it stabbing all the way through my hand. Yes, it takes that much force to move that small lever. This cant be right. Can it?***
 
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mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
7,639
Tampa Bay Area
If you look carefully at all of the Tensioner Images... if you judge the depth of a single serrated line that the Tiny, Spring-Loaded Locking Bevel ratchets into as the Cylinder-Foot-Pad moves outwards from the Body of the Tensioner... you can see just how minuscule that upward motion needs to be to cause that latch to rotate out of the way of the serrations...and allow the Cylinder-Plunger-Footpad to retract inside of the Tensioner... Figure about 1/16" to 1/8" ...Tops. This action of the slight lifting MUST be consistently held while pushing the Plunger inwards and IT DOES NOT LOCK IN THE UPWARDS POSITION TO HOLD THE PLUNGER INSIDE OF THE TENSIONER..

I also ascribe to pushing the Lever Up and Down a few times as suggested by @Mooseman to dislodge the lever a bit.. and then begin Lifting up and holding it carefully while trying to actuate the plunger. You'll notice that I was so concerned about losing control of the two chain segments that I fabricated Two Brass Rods, Drilled out and Chamfered to use Safety Wire Looped through the Chain Segments on both sides...just so I could pull the Timing Chain inwards and get free access to the Timing Tension Plunger-Footpad...and use a Long Screw-Driver to push inwards and get it to move. That way I knew that Chain segments would NOT drop off of the Lower Crankshaft Cog regardless of being slid back and forth along the top of the Engine Block. . If you examine these images very carefully... you'll get a better idea of what you should be feeling down there:

http://s557.photobucket.com/user/60...INEREPAIR/TRAILBLAZEREPAIRTOOLS?sort=3&page=1
 

midnightbluS10

Original poster
Member
Feb 18, 2017
104
Shreveport, LA
I have a tensioner in my hands finally. Mine definitely doesn't act this way. I'm almost wondering if the lever was spinning on the shaft. It moved about 3x the distance of a brand new one. I took the pin out and extended the new one completely and ratcheted it back in and reinserted the pin so I have a much better understanding of what's needed to compress the tensioner. The weird thing is that at no point did the one on the engine ever try to ratchet back when I let it go. Hmmm. Not sure if the wedge was loose, though.

Unfortunately, I had something come up so I haven't worked on it since Tuesday. Hopefully I'll be able to get back on it tomorrow.


I did see your setup with the brass rods. I thought it was pretty ingenious. Especially since you now had much better access to the guides to replace them. I actually pointed it out to a guy in class lol. And then started checking prices on guides. I also picked up a new upper guide and a timing set from Cloyes just in case I need it. I never did find my old upper guide. Thankfully the bolts are exactly where they were supposed to be.

Thanks, MRRSM, mooseman, sparky, and m. mcmillen and anybody I might have missed. The help you've provided so far is priceless and has really helped me out. I appreciate the warm welcome, as well.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
If your arm is moving more than what the new one is doing, then it could very well be that is has failed. Mine, the ratchet would over extend and would not hold the new position so would slack the chain at idle but not completely.

You're very welcome. That's what it's all about here :thumbsup:
 
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