Horn Issue

[l008com]

I've had this problem with my horn lately. It doesn't work... at first. You push it and you get nothing. Then you push it again and it works totally normally. Then after a little while, it's the same thing, you push it and nothing the first time. Then push again and it beeps. You can keep beeping great once it starts working, but once you stop it won't go again for a while. It's a very annoying situation when you're trying to beep at dumbasses on the highway.

Is the horn on a Trailblazer the same switch type mechanism as an S10? If so, is it likely just dirty, or could something else be going on?

 

[djthumper]

Your clock spring is likely broken or it could be really filthy.

 

[Matt]

Use your finger.

 

[budwich]

..... use your FINGER on the contacts.

The contacts under the steering "cover" have some grease on them... common problem. Somewhere a post / easy method to getting at them and cleaning them.

 

[littleblazer]

My issue was different but the fix is in here. It could provide insight.

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/2002-envoy-horn-not-working.11594/

 

[l008com]

So I just stick a screw driver in two holes and the airbag pops right off right? Where are those holes exactly?

 

[littleblazer]

I'd use two Allen keys. On the side of the wheel.

 

[tsmith1156]

It's just the horn I wouldn't worry about it

 

[l008com]

It's just the horn I wouldn't worry about it

Yeah who needs inspection stickers anyway!

 

[tsmith1156]

Yeah who needs inspection stickers anyway!

Ya I guess your horn is kinda important then haha, I'm not used to the whole inspection thing cause we don't have one here

 

[l008com]

It's also a huge saftey issue. And I'm in Massachusetts, I NEEED to beep at stupid people in front of me.

 

[Blckshdw]

Install some train/air horns, and be done with the issue.

 

[l008com]

Ok I popped my airbag off and played around a bit. This isn't what I expected but here's what I got.

So when you push the airbag to beep, it's actually pushing down on the two bars yellow.
When you do, each bar has little two contacts, one at each end. Any of these 4 contacts will cause a beep blue.

Now when I was pushing down on these contacts directly with my hands, I was getting instant beeping on problem. So I'm not sure what's causing it to not work great when I'm pushing on the airbag.

Should I undo those four bolts red, so I can remove the bars and clean all the contacts thoroughly? Or, is there something else going on I need to address? This really wasn't what I was expecting to see in there.

 

[budwich]

I don't think that's the same problem that I had... the actual contacting "point" is in the middle where the two wires go into the white connector was an issue. it makes contact with the clock spring. Does your problem change by moving the steering?

 

[Blckshdw]

There aren't any 'contacts' per se, under the horn switch, just the same bare metal that you can see in the center section. Pressing either side just grounds out the circuit, and the horn goes off. I'd focus your troubleshooting on the horn switch plug and clock spring.

 

[l008com]

Ok I can't figure this out. Turning the wheel seems to have no effect at all. Hidden deep in a local cemetery, I laid on the airbag while turning the wheel, and it was dead silent. Then when it finally started beeping, it stayed beeping as i kept turning it. Turning seems to have nothing at all to do with the problem. I swear it's like my horn just has a slow hard drive, and it takes a long time to load Horn.app. Honestly that's the perfect analogy for the behavior. Once it beeps, for a short time after that, it easily beeps every time with normal light pressure.

 

[littleblazer]

Ok I can't figure this out. Turning the wheel seems to have no effect at all. Hidden deep in a local cemetery, I laid on the airbag while turning the wheel, and it was dead silent. Then when it finally started beeping, it stayed beeping as i kept turning it. Turning seems to have nothing at all to do with the problem. I swear it's like my horn just has a slow hard drive, and it takes a long time to load Horn.app. Honestly that's the perfect analogy for the behavior. Once it beeps, for a short time after that, it easily beeps every time with normal light pressure.

Put a test light on the plug at the horn or a meter and check for voltage when you hit it. if you have it then it's the horn itself.

 

[Blckshdw]

Seeing as you have a DIC steering wheel, when the horn stops working, do any of your control buttons also stop functioning?

 

[budwich]

did you check the contact that was suggested. What may be happensing is you are getting "burn thru" on that contact. clean it and see if the condition improves. The symptoms you have3 are similar to ones that I have seen... it really depends on how clean that contact point is.

 

[l008com]

did you check the contact that was suggested. What may be happensing is you are getting "burn thru" on that contact. clean it and see if the condition improves. The symptoms you have3 are similar to ones that I have seen... it really depends on how clean that contact point is.

Where is the contact point you are referring to? How to I get access to it?

 

[littleblazer]

Where is the contact point you are referring to? How to I get access to it?

Twist out that white piece with the wires under the air bag that's attached to the mounts

 

[l008com]

Ok I twisted out that pin and the contact was wet! I don't know what it was, oil of some kind, actual water? There was no corrosion so it was probably oil. So I cleaned it off good and I cleaned down in the hole good, and reassembled, pretty confident I had fixed it.

The very first beep I did after this worked perfectly, instantly. But after that, it went right back to normal, maybe even worse than before. I did learn that every time it doesn't beep, if you just say on it, after about 2 seconds, it will start beeping. It's pretty consistent with that, which makes me suspect that maybe it is the horn and not the switch after all.

All that said, I'm starting to like the idea of putting a test on the horn's power leads. What I like even more is the idea of hooking up a small wire with an LED on it in parallel to the horn, that way I'll be able to know exactly when the horn is getting power, and when it's not. Now I just need to find a suitable 12v led.

Also, can I get a hint where un the world is my horn, and where is it's power connector? I assume it's just a simple 12v + / - connection?

 

[Matt]

The horn is in front of the battery...just look down and you'll see them.

I replaced mine with air horns because, well, the OEM horn is weak as piss.

 

[l008com]

Isn't my battery under the back seat?

 

[Blckshdw]

That is your rear fuse block, you also have the front one under the hood. May be a good idea to spend some quality time with your TB, remove some of the covers, and looking at things to get more familiar with it.

That will be beneficial if you're going to do your own maintenance, and also following along with technical threads if you decide you want to try some other things that are new to you.

 

[littleblazer]

The weak horn thing, always thought it was damned loud for stock. don't get me wrong it isn't an old school cadillac or anything but it always seemed louder than the average car to me.

The liquid is probably a die-electric grease. Could you try one more thing? If you have a test light probe, hook it to a ground and poke it into the barrel where the contact would be. (Take it back out) See if it beeps. If it doesn't, push harder. Does it do it then. If you can't it's fine, just another test of the contact ring itself.

 

[l008com]

I don't have a test light, I'll need to come up with something

 

[littleblazer]

It's not a big deal, just test at the socket with what you have then.

 

[l008com]

So this thread got abandoned because the problem just sort of.... went away. All on it's own. For like 8 years. And suddenly, it's back. I haven't poked around yet. When I do, I imagine its going to be exactly the same as before. Some unknown liquid on the contacts, wiping away doesn't fix it, but eventually the problem goes away on it's own.

The real hassle is that I need to get my inspection sticker THIS month.

 

[Mooseman]

Re-reading this thread, I didn't see any mention of the relay! Try swapping it with another of the same type. Another possibility is a bad pin contact for the relay in the socket. Try jumping the relay to see if the horn itself is going bad and check for power. Still another possibility is a broken copper trace in the underside of the fuse box.

 

[l008com]

It was so long ago, I don't even remember what I did. My guess is it's another case of goo under the airbag. No idea where it came from the first time, or this time though. Nothing's more annoying than when someone cuts you off and you can't beep at them though!
It feels like you're encouraging more people to cut you off

 

[l008com]

Ok update time. I took the airbag off today and poked around. I don't know the name of the part but the red wires go into a plastic spring. I had to push that down AND the normal pressure points that the airbag pushes, to get it to beep. It didn't feel like it wasn't clipped in right, it just wasn't working. The tiniest bit of pressure would do it.

So I pulled it out and looked at it, expecting the contact part to be covered in SOME kind of goo, but it was not. It was nice and clean.



So at that point, theres was nothing left to do but put it all back together. I snapped it back in, snapped the airbag back on, and now it's honking again like normal. Little chirps, full blown "YOU JUST CUT ME OFF"s, the works. Not sure why or how, but hopefully it stays fixed!

 

[l008com]

CRAP!
I thought this was fixed but i twas having the same problem today. And with the airbag removed again, same old thing. If you push the horn 'rails' AND the center "pin" down at the same time, it will beep all day. But just pushing the side pieces, nada. What do you call this assembly? Should I just replace it? Maybe the spring or wire got damaged? It looks like it's all soldered together.

Welp here's a partial answer to my own question, the assembly is it's own part, and its nice and cheap:

More Information for DORMAN 924088

The only issue is, I can't see what is actually wrong with the old one, I hate to replace even a $10 part for nothing (like I did replacing the $10 carb on a lawnmower I'm trying to fix).

 

[Blckshdw]

Mine does the same thing, and has for years. I don't use my horn very much, so I don't know exactly when it started, but I suspect when I had things taken apart to do the DIC steering wheel swap. Given your findings, about pushing the contact switch part, in addition to the rails to complete the circuit, I would guess that the tip with the spring that goes into the wheel may be damaged just enough to prevent solid/consistent contact at the bottom of the cavity when the airbag is pressed.

 

[l008com]

Mine was still working tonight. I guess I'll just see how it goes and if it gets iffy again, I'll just buy that part. It's $11.

I live in Massachusetts so as you might imagine, i DO in fact use my horn. A LOT. Not only that but you can't get a sticker if your horn doesn't work, and I'm due by the end of THIS month.

 

[Mooseman]

If that new part doesn't work, I would suspect the clockspring is either broken or not connected right. When it doesn't work, try turning the wheel (not while driving ). If it seems to fix itself, maybe it's breaking or not connected right. There's also the wire behind that connector inside the hole. It would require taking the wheel off in both cases to get to it. I've never worked on the clockspring so I don't know what's involved.

 

[budwich]

CRAP!
I thought this was fixed but i twas having the same problem today. And with the airbag removed again, same old thing. If you push the horn 'rails' AND the center "pin" down at the same time, it will beep all day. But just pushing the side pieces, nada. What do you call this assembly? Should I just replace it? Maybe the spring or wire got damaged? It looks like it's all soldered together.

Welp here's a partial answer to my own question, the assembly is it's own part, and its nice and cheap:

More Information for DORMAN 924088

The only issue is, I can't see what is actually wrong with the old one, I hate to replace even a $10 part for nothing (like I did replacing the $10 carb on a lawnmower I'm trying to fix).

you may not like the result...

When you say you cleaned the CONTACTS which ones are you referring to and what did you clean them with? My view of the picture that you posted is that contact has oxide on it. NOTE: the system has at least two contacts... the one you show in the picture and the one it comes in contact with. There are "others" as in the anchor points of the "horn pad" but those are likely good as they are "screw thread contacts". They can be checked with a meter as those are transferring ground to the system (ie. just need a ground / continuity check).

ADDED: is the white plastic "pin / contact" locked into the sleeve of hole / receiver in the steering. It has to be locked in. That is providing the electrical path of the ground back into the clockspring. It has to be contacting the bottom contact at ALL TIMES. The contacts on the rail is the "activation" to pick up the "body ground" that will be passed.

 

[l008com]

I didn't clean the contacts, I expected dirty contacts, but everything looked clean when I removed it. And the contacts I was referring to is the one at the end of the white plastic pin. Which I think is getting locked in all the way. It seems like the spring might be a little disfigured and the wire inside of it too, so maybe it's just not getting the right amount of pressure to make a good electrical connection.

 

[budwich]

I didn't clean the contacts, I expected dirty contacts, but everything looked clean when I removed it. And the contacts I was referring to is the one at the end of the white plastic pin. Which I think is getting locked in all the way. It seems like the spring might be a little disfigured and the wire inside of it too, so maybe it's just not getting the right amount of pressure to make a good electrical connection.

photos don't always see good... Anyway, what I was referring to is that the plastic contact "holder" has to lock into the receiver that is down in the hole. That is how the contact is maintained. Basically without pressing on the rails, you can measure voltage (to a known ground) at either of the wires. That is voltage that is at the far end horn relay coil. IF you aren't seeing that steady, your horn is not going to work because there is no continuity thru that "spring contact" because it is not being held in contact with the lower portion of the column.

 

[l008com]

Well I kind of already know thats the problem because while i'm holding the normal beeping "rails" down, I get no horn until I also push that plastic clip down harder. So the problem is definitely in that spot. I live in the suburbs so i don't always have a good time and place to test the horn So I don't know at this moment if its still broken or still fixed.