Grinding Noise - Only Some Times - While Moving Foward at Speed (40mph?) 2004 TB LT 4WD

[webdawg]

I have this very strange problem. I have personally witnessed it while driving but it happens all the time when my SO is driving the vehicle home.

Around 40mph I was driving and I out of no where could feel a slight up and down vibration in the passenger front tire. Then, it would grind. It would grind so bad I thought some gears were grinding.

This lasted for a few seconds.

I then hit a traffic light, and it stopped, as I continued on my journey, it did not happen again.

Now, the other person driving the car hears it all the time, and it lasts a lot longer from what they are telling me. I am thinking until they stop or get the correct length of break.

I cannot understand what it is.

A wheel bearing? But wouldn't that happen all the time? I have had bad wheel bearings before, they vibrate, /make noise.

If it was a CV axle wouldn't I hear that when turning?


Anyone have any ideas? I cannot reproduce the issue on demand.

 

[BlazingTrails]

It really sounds like a problem in the front differential for the 4wd. Maybe a problem with the disconnect?

 

[djthumper]

Put it up on jack stands and take a look at that side. Can you move the wheel with a significant amount of play?

 

[webdawg]

I will have to try that. I actually took the tire off and was looking at some brake stuff. I tried shaking things around. I will try that here asap.

It really sounds like a problem in the front differential for the 4wd. Maybe a problem with the disconnect?

We very rarely engage the 4WD and it is off most of the time. I do exercise it at least once a month and it works fine. Would it still work if this was a problem?

 

[BlazingTrails]

Yes it is possible, the front axles are always spinning when driving and go into the disconnect. Even if you never use 4x4 it could still be a problem.

 

[webdawg]

Yes it is possible, the front axles are always spinning when driving and go into the disconnect. Even if you never use 4x4 it could still be a problem.

BlazingTrails,

What does the disconnect do? Is it what locks the axels in place?

Looking here I can see it now:

http://www.offroadtb.com/articles/tech-docs/front-axle-4wd-disconnect/

Is there anyway to tell? Should I rebuild or find another? Do they sell them new?

 

[BlazingTrails]

BlazingTrails,

What does the disconnect do? Is it what locks the axels in place?

Looking here I can see it now:

http://www.offroadtb.com/articles/tech-docs/front-axle-4wd-disconnect/

Is there anyway to tell? Should I rebuild or find another? Do they sell them new?

That is the part I am talking about. As suggested by Larry putting it up in the air and spinning the tires may be a tell all. you should be able to source the noise one way or another by wiggling, spinning, or jarring the wheels back and forth.

 

[webdawg]

Quick question:

Is there one or two of these?

 

[BlazingTrails]

There is one Axle disconnect.

 

[djthumper]

If you put the front end up on jack stands you should be able to determine what is the cause of all of the noise. If the tire moves then you need to determine what is causing the excessive movement. From what you are telling us so far it can be the wheel bearing, CV joint, disconnect bearing, or the disconnect itself. You may find out the noise is radiating from the driver side to the passenger side because it turns out to be the bearing.

 

[Ziggy]

I've been chasing a very similar issue on my 2002 LTZ. My truck was pretty badly neglected by the p/o, so I've been chasing noises since I bought it. I know EXACTLY the frustration of trying to identify this noise, especially when it seems to be intermittent. What I found as I've chased it is that pretty much everything is worn out and is making different noises, creating a cacophany of unpleasantness. Specifically though, the intermittent grinding/scraping noise in my case, is due to worn bearings in the axle disconnect. I isolated it last Wednesday, and probably priced out nearly exactly the same parts you have. FWIW, with Amazon Prime, you can frequently beat Rock Auto's prices... I went down to the local U Pull & Pay here in Cincinnati today, and was able to score a servicable axle disconnect, a good passenger side CV axle, and a TCCM from an '06 TB today for less than $50. Popular parts though, looked at 9 different 360s in the yard and only found 2 that still had the disconnect in them, and one of them suffered an engine fire!

 

[Ziggy]

This is what my front axle disonnect looked like when I finally got it out. the outer bearings were TOAST! I had visions of rebuilding this one with new bearings, seals, grease, etc... but I ended up breaking the back of the housing off when I took it out. Getting the back out of the oil pan was no fun! Patience and perseverance prevailed though! Putting it back together with the new (used) axle disconnect this evening.

 

[minisuv]

I had the same in my '04 the truck was well maintained by PO it was grinding more steering to the left and calmed down to the right. was the hub. since I can't touch grease or anything due to prepping for stem cell therapy dr's say NO, my buddy greased the hell out of everything and rolls nice now. she is still stock as of now.

 

[webdawg]

So I have it apart right now and it looks like the outer bearings are toast here too.

The axle that goes in the bearing can move freely up and down. That is I can push from the bottom and it can pivot about 1-2 inches either way. I uploaded a video to show:

https://youtu.be/SdQY5ldSi80

I just wanted to make sure it is not supposed to do that so someone please reply back confirming that this part is bad.

 

[Mooseman]

Oh yeah, it's toast. Either find a good used unit, rebuild this one or spend $$$ on a new one. Good article at ORTB on how to rebuild it.
http://www.offroadtb.com/articles/tech-docs/front-axle-4wd-disconnect/

 

[webdawg]

You think if I drive on that for 1 more week it is going to ruin anything? I have to order the part online, and wait for it to come.

 

[Mooseman]

If you're replacing the whole unit, doesn't matter. The axle might shake like hell though at speed. If rebuilding, I would take the axle out and run it like that until parts come in. The 2WD models basically run like that.

 

[webdawg]

Your saying I could take the axle out and run it like that no problem?

Could I take the entire axle disconnect out and axle and run it like that for a week?

 

[webdawg]

Anyone have any comments on this?

 

[Mooseman]

1.Your saying I could take the axle out and run it like that no problem?

2. Could I take the entire axle disconnect out and axle and run it like that for a week?

1. Yes

2. No. There is another shaft behind the disconnect that will flop around and likely damage the oil pan. And if you pull that shaft out (which requires a slide hammer), you will lose lube from the differential and possibly cause damage to the gear without the shaft to hold it.

Are you replacing or rebuilding it?

 

[webdawg]

I have to replace it. I cannot afford to have the vehicle down. I was thinking about rebuilding it, but I would have to pull it and then order what parts I think I would need.

http://www.amazon.com/ATP-Automotive-111001-Front-Disconnect/dp/B004QBZPS6

That is what I ordered. Unless anyone has anything to say bad about it I will stick with it.

Do you think that I should get a new actuator? I do not think it is broken but the vehicle has 150-160k on it.

The outer bearings were in pieces.

I could not get the axle out so I had to pull the entire axle with the disconnect. I pushed the axle out of the disconnect with a bar and put the disconnect back on so I could drive it.

What is on the other side of the vehicle, is there a bearing that I could replace there or?

 

[Mooseman]

I haven't heard of these actuators failing a lot so try it and see. Worse thing that can happen is 4x4 won't work until you get another. Haven't heard much about these disconnects neither. Can't be worse than the original.

 

[webdawg]

I was thinking about repacking the CV axle joints and replacing the boots while I had the axle out. I do not see the CARDONE ones on RockAuto but I do see some MOOG and Dorman ones. People were taking about how the neoprene is better in some old posts that I read. Is that still true?

Any reccomendations?

It looks like:

http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/cv-joint-boot-tool/oem-cv-joint-boot-pliers/141501_0_0/

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=387911&cc=1424281&jnid=549&jpid=0

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=387910&cc=1424281&jnid=549&jpid=1

I do not have a parts cleaner, any reccomendation on what to clean the joint with?


It looks like there is a differential bearing on the drivers side. Should I be looking to replace that?

 

[Mooseman]

You usually don't bother with them unless they did rip open, which would be better to just replace it as it was probably contaminated and damaged. If the boots are good, leave well enough alone.

As for axles, heard that Detroit Axles are good at a reasonable price.

 

[webdawg]

You usually don't bother with them unless they did rip open, which would be better to just replace it as it was probably contaminated and damaged. If the boots are good, leave well enough alone.

As for axles, heard that Detroit Axles are good at a reasonable price.

I see some grease on the vehicle around where the boot clamps to the axle and I think they are leaking. I am going to examine the boots further. I have seen people talk about how the clamps need re-tightened every once in a while. I just cannot take the chance of them going bad. We make multi thousand mile trips all the time and the vehicle needs to work.

I decided to repack them instead of getting new. I can get a new axle for about 60$ but OEM is about $300 (both on rockauto). I have read about how the OEM axles actually are better and I would think it would be worth it to maintain them.

The only thing I am stuck on ATM is the best way to clean them. I do not have a parts washer...I think I am going to have to use a bucket and some spray as I do not have a real garage either. Any recommendations on cleaner? I have to remember how to re pack these things.

Besides that, eventually I would like to redo the other side. It would be easier to pull the axle out I would think. I have read enough about getting the axle out of the differential so I am square on that.

If I do do the drivers side, though, should I be prepared to change the differential seal? It would suck to do the maintenance on the drivers CV axle and it starts to leak. Pulling the axles make the seals leak? Should I go with the OEM seal (19257296) or the SKF 15618. I figure if I am going to change the seal I should do that outer bearing too. I know it is lubricated at all times but the vehicle is at 160k. It looks like there is a bearing and bearing cup...anyone have part numbers?

Thanks for all the help!

 

[rcam81]

I got mine from here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Trailblazer-Envoy-Rainer-Bravada-4WD-front-axle-disconnect-assembly-/161509948512?hash=item259abe3c60&vxp=mtr
Their turnaround time is great.

 

[webdawg]

I got mine from here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Trailblazer-Envoy-Rainer-Bravada-4WD-front-axle-disconnect-assembly-/161509948512?hash=item259abe3c60&vxp=mtr
Their turnaround time is great.

ATP Automotive 111001 4WD Front Axle Disconnect is what I ended up getting. It only comes with a

• 1 Year Warranty

May I ask when you installed yours and if you had any problems with it? It looks like yours is made by US Powertrain and from some research it looks like they make decent stuff.

I wonder why they do not sell on rockauto?

Here are some reviews/info:

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/513707-usa-powertrain-reman-engines.html
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?706193-Anyone-bought-an-engine-from-USA-Powertrain

It looks like back in the day people use to state that they were not honoring winning ebay bids and therefore how could they be expected to honer warranty stuff. I could see how that could make rockauto or a chain a no go.

Do you know what their warranty is?

 

[Tiggerr]

I've had great service and Oem quality, or better parts from these folks over the years.
http://www.raxles.com/

 

[webdawg]

rcam81 how long have you had it on there?

 

[rcam81]

It was put on back around the end of February. I had the transfer case replaced at the same time. Haven't had any problems with either of them since then. Yep, it was an expensive month!!!!

 

[Matt_TB_05]

I have this very strange problem. I have personally witnessed it while driving but it happens all the time when my SO is driving the vehicle home.

Around 40mph I was driving and I out of no where could feel a slight up and down vibration in the passenger front tire. Then, it would grind. It would grind so bad I thought some gears were grinding.

This lasted for a few seconds.

I then hit a traffic light, and it stopped, as I continued on my journey, it did not happen again.

Now, the other person driving the car hears it all the time, and it lasts a lot longer from what they are telling me. I am thinking until they stop or get the correct length of break.

I cannot understand what it is.

A wheel bearing? But wouldn't that happen all the time? I have had bad wheel bearings before, they vibrate, /make noise.

If it was a CV axle wouldn't I hear that when turning?


Anyone have any ideas? I cannot reproduce the issue on demand.

hey as i am reading this thread, I'm having the same issue. Its like a ching ching sound then this loud grind-ish sound once i get around 40 or 45. Ive always thought it was my wheel bearing or something got stuck by near the rotors. Did replacing the front axel disconnect fix the issue?

 

[webdawg]

hey as i am reading this thread, I'm having the same issue. Its like a ching ching sound then this loud grind-ish sound once i get around 40 or 45. Ive always thought it was my wheel bearing or something got stuck by near the rotors. Did replacing the front axel disconnect fix the issue?

I did replace it and it did need replaced. Go to the CV axle on the passenger side and try and push it up and down, if there is a decent amount of play, it is a tell tale sign.

It fixed the issue I was having, the bearings were gone!

 

[Matt_TB_05]

I did replace it and it did need replaced. Go to the CV axle on the passenger side and try and push it up and down, if there is a decent amount of play, it is a tell tale sign.

It fixed the issue I was having, the bearings were gone!

thank you very much. i will look for the part and replace is soon

 

[Matt_TB_05]

thank you very much. i will look for the part and replace is soon

I did replace it and it did need replaced. Go to the CV axle on the passenger side and try and push it up and down, if there is a decent amount of play, it is a tell tale sign.

It fixed the issue I was having, the bearings were gone!

one last question, before you fixed the issue, did you put the truck into 4wd and the sound went away?

 

[webdawg]

one last question, before you fixed the issue, did you put the truck into 4wd and the sound went away?

I did not mess with the 4wd after I found out it was bad. I did not know. This is how bad mine was:

 

[Matt_TB_05]

I did not mess with the 4wd after I found out it was bad. I did not know. This is how bad mine was:

damn that is bad. I'm due for a front/rear differential fluid change so i will check it once i have the truck lifted up. thank you so much for the info and video

 

[Matt_TB_05]

i just changed my front axle disconnect and it did fix my problem. the bearing was destroyed and it did damage my cv axle a little bit but not bad. Thank you all for your information and help. That sound was driving me crazy and i couldn't point where it was from. Here is a picture of my front axle disconnect. The inside bearing was flopping up and down

 

[webdawg]

i just changed my front axle disconnect and it did fix my problem. the bearing was destroyed and it did damage my cv axle a little bit but not bad. Thank you all for your information and help. That sound was driving me crazy and i couldn't point where it was from. Here is a picture of my front axle disconnect. The inside bearing was flopping up and down

What brand did you end up getting.

 

[Matt_TB_05]

What brand did you end up getting.

i ordered it from Auto Parts Direct

 

[coolasice]

i ordered it from Auto Parts Direct

@Matt_TB_05, how much play in the CV shaft did you have after replacing the disconnect? I'm wondering if I need to do bearings in mine.