NEED HELP Flex plate cracked: do I need to pull transmission?

[HizAndHerz]

My Saab 9-7x with a 5.3L V8 has a cracked flex plate. Can I replace the flex plate by unbolting the transmission and sliding it back or do I need to pull it completely out?

Even with the truck 2.5 feet in the air on 12-ton jack stands I am having trouble rotating the catalytic converter assembly enough to get it out. When searching about getting the cats out, I came across someone claiming that they were able to change the flexplate without fully removing the transmission. I can't find that post anymore to see if they were talking about a straight-6 or a V8.

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[mrrsm]

I don’t know if you have access to the actual “Hold In Your Hands Factory Shop Manual” but if you cannot find something relevant for Free here from @Mooseman ...:

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/need-service-manuals-get-them-here.361/

....this site sells a Full Version for around $15.00 that you can Download. There do not seem to be any Youtube Videos on the the subject of “How to R&R The 2007 Saab 9.7X Transmission.

http://www.ebook4car.com/part_1405/rm

Under most circumstances… in the 2WD flavors of GM based vehicles… removing the Drive-shaft and Cross Member as well as unbolting the down pipe(s) and CAT are required. However… if the only reason you needed to get the CAT out of the way is to gain access to other related fasteners and bracing just to R&R the Transmission… and it won’t fall on your head when you get the Transmission supported and slid back… it might work to get some Large Zip Ties...and just move and tie the CAT up and out of your way… No sense in taking it all the way out if you really don’t need to do so.

Regarding the Transmission… I like the idea that you have such robust Hydraulic Jacks to support the vehicle. But lowering or moving the 4L60E off the back of the Engine can be as tricky as rescuing a Baby in a Blanket out of a Burning Building. If the Transmission is not strapped down to a proper Transmission Jack… it can easily flip over and land on its head. Harbor Freight sells a proper Transmission Jack for not too much money that will make the process much easier...and again… it will not have to be completely removed from under the SUV ...just moved far enough aside to replace the Flex-Plate. This Jack Stand may have an Internet HF Coupon out there, too:

http://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html

​

While you have the Flex-Plate out… you should consider replacing the Rear Engine Crankshaft Seal as well… No sense Tempting the Fates...and having it start to leak oil back there in six months when such a Golden Opportunity presents itself to R&R the Seal with a Brand New one from either Felpro or Victor Rienz… ;>)

 

[HizAndHerz]

Excellent reply! Thanks for taking the time to do that.

I should have said up front that I've pulled plenty of transmissions and rebuilt a few as well. I've got a couple of transmission jacks and am using one similar to the Harbor Freight one you show above. I also have the monster 3-volume service manual from GM. I have run into a number of cases where the manual made tasks much harder than they should be.

The manual says that the catalytic converter assembly has to be removed and it was looking to me that I couldn't pull it without getting the truck at least 3 feet in the air, hence my post. Actually, jacking up the truck another couple of inches and removing the transmission mount gave me enough wiggle room so that my son and I could get the cats out.

At this point, we've got the shift linkage, connectors and fuel lines loose. Now I'm stuck at the flexplate-to-TC bolts. I don't see any way to get at the bolt heads from the access port. The manual is of no help on that. I'm taking a break and will do some research online before starting up again.

In my mind this job seemed a lot easier than it is, especially when I dealing with some physical issues. In hindsight, I probably should have paid someone to do the job for me. Live and learn.

Oh, and yes, I will change the rear seal. Thanks for that suggestion.
Thanks again for your help.
-Jorns

 

[mrrsm]

Bear with me on this explanation ... But If you look look at the "Stalagmite" overhanging "LIP" that is at the very rear center of the Crankcase Oil Pan on the 4.2L Engine... there is a Plastic/Rubber Plug that once removed... gives access through the appropriately sized hole and get to the Torque Converter Bolts every 120 Degrees using a 15MM Deep Socket and a Ratcheting Breaker Bar.

Then you use a HUGE Screwdriver to snag the hobbed-out teeth of the Flame Hardened Flex-Plate Ring and then gently pry on it clockwise and inch your way up to each bolt a little at a time and get them out of there...with a bit of extra difficulty due to the Lok-Tite on the Grade 8 TC Bolts.

I suspect that the 4.8L Engine probably has a similar access port-plug in their Crankcase- Oil-pan in the same general area ... But I can't swear to it since I have not worked on the Tranny in my 2003 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 4.8L.. yet. By the way... We are Always Happy to Help out a Fellow GMT Nation Member... :>)

 

[HizAndHerz]

... But If you look look at the "Stalagmite" overhanging "LIP" that is at the very rear center of the Crankcase Oil Pan on the 4.2L Engine... there is a Plastic/Rubber Plug that once removed... gives access through the appropriately sized hole and get to the Torque Converter Bolts

That's what has me stumped. The FSM shows exactly what you are talking about but it doesn't exist on the 5.3 V8. All the youtube vids I could find on pulling a GM transmission show the FP-to-TC bolts being accessed after removing the starter. I haven't been back out to the garage yet and will have another look at things.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[mrrsm]

Yeah... That makes perfect sense... that is...If you work for GM as an Engineer (your present company is excluded here...of course) and you want to deter customers from working on their own vehicles. I forgot to make mention that as you begin to pull the transmission towards the rear of the Saab... make up some kind of Bungee Rig...or.... Bent Angle Iron with Brass Toilet Bowl Stove Bolts-Nuts-Washers... or ....perhaps even use a small Ratcheting Tie Down that should run across the face of the Torque Converter to keep it from misbehaving and coming loose.

Conversely...Even when secured... during any wrangling with the Transmission ... they have this PITA tendency to slide forward and turn slightly akimbo and will need to be pushed in properly to the point where the grooves and slots in the Torque Converter Hydraulic Fluid Pump are correctly seated all the way insde,

 

[HizAndHerz]

Yes, thanks for that. I learned the hard way many years ago that torque converters like their freedom and will sometimes leap from the bell housing to the floor leaving a lake of bodily their fluids all over.

After a day of rest, I'm heading to the garage just now to see if I can gain access to the TC bolts.

 

[littleblazer]

I am not entirely sure on this but @Capote replaced his for the same reason not that long ago. It was a i6 but I think the bellhousing and everything is similar enough that you should be able to bounce off that. Same platform and all you know. Or I'm entirely wrong and the bellhousing is very different.

 

[Capote]

I am not entirely sure on this but @Capote replaced his for the same reason not that long ago. It was a i6 but I think the bellhousing and everything is similar enough that you should be able to bounce off that. Same platform and all you know. Or I'm entirely wrong and the bellhousing is very different.

My flex plate cracked itself around the hub portion, broke loose and jammed itself so tight against the rest of the flex plate that it continued to work miraculously, while making a god awful noise that I thought was an engine knocking. You can see the crazy pictures in my old thread below:
http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads...-end-troubleshooting.15534/page-3#post-515350

 

[HizAndHerz]

Geez, what a crummy day of work. I've changed starters on GM trucks with V8's and they are a bit painful since you have to go through the wheel well, but the starter on the 2006 GMT seems to be even more inaccessible. I had to use a 3-foot extension to get to the nut on the back of the starter but my impact swivel wouldn't swivel quite enough to allow the socket to make it on the nut. My other swivel disintegrated earlier this week so it is off to Sears tomorrow for a new one.

Man, its tough moving at this snails pace, but I guess sometimes you just have to embrace the challenges of working in a cramped garage with a truck on jack stands.

 

[HizAndHerz]

My flex plate cracked itself around the hub portion, broke loose and jammed itself so tight against the rest of the flex plate that it continued to work miraculously, while making a god awful noise that I thought was an engine knocking. You can see the crazy pictures in my old thread below:
http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads...-end-troubleshooting.15534/page-3#post-515350

Yes, I read through that thread. Pretty crazy pictures there. You don't mention much about how difficult it was to do the job. Maybe I'm getting old -- I used to do this kind of work all the time, but this seemingly simple job has been kicking my rear. Persistence is key.

 

[Capote]

Yes, I read through that thread. Pretty crazy pictures there. You don't mention much about how difficult it was to do the job. Maybe I'm getting old -- I used to do this kind of work all the time, but this seemingly simple job has been kicking my rear. Persistence is key.

Oh it's not a hard job to do. Dropping the trans and replacing the flex plate is a pretty easy and straight forward task. When you remove the flex plate and put the replacement in, just torque everything to spec, paint mark the bolts, and be sure to use Loctite. Oh and if your rear main seal is leaking you might as well replace that too while the flex plate is off.

 

[HizAndHerz]

Doing this on an I6 has got to be easier than a V8. There is no access to the FP-to-TC bolts except by removing the starter. Removing the starter does't sound that bad, right?

Well, I just spent a couple of hours trying to get the starter off. I rigged a 3-foot extension with two u-joints to get at the nuts holding on the wires. With the wires loose, there is no way for the starter to come out. The manual says I have to take out the freaking rear steering crossmember to get the starter out!!!! This looks to be a huge task. I have no idea where I'm going to put the jack stands to allow access to the 14 crossmember bolts that need to be removed.

If anyone has tips or tricks or just some encouragement, I'd appreciate it. I like working on trucks, but I can't believe how much this one is kicking my behind.

 

[mrrsm]

Since your Saab vehicle was the very last of the GMT360s ever produced and in particular… since it was Made in America with the GM V8 Power Plants inside… I’m extremely dubious about your being able to find any “extra-continental” Saab Help with your Aero Repair Issues. However… just in case some of the 9-7Xs were paid any attention... perhaps this Saab Specific Forum may prove useful in joining/perusing/questioning them about the component R&R idiosyncrasies of this platform:

http://saabworld.net/forum.php
http://saabworld.net/downloads.php

These next instructions do not mention the Saab 9-7X of course…. But unless there is something physically additional in the way as a barrier… this information may have something additional for you to use and visualize some other novel ways of simply maneuvering the starter just far enough around and away from its in-dwelling position to give you access to the TC:

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/Bluegorilla/2009-01-20_190436_2000_4.8l_starter_replacement.pdf

In many cases… the alternative is to loosen the two holding fasteners and then maneuver the Starter just far enough out of the way to access the FP-2-TC Bolts and perhaps not actually have to completely remove the heavy thing to gain access to the work field it presently conceals. Most of the time… after unbolting the starters, it becomes very necessary to juggle them into the positions needed prior to gaining access to the wiring harness fasteners and these actions are contrary to the instructions from the manual(s)… but if these necessary evil alternative methods prove useful… Screw the Manuals.

Of all people... at almost 70 years of age...I am the least likely Member to be able to render any encouragement here because while removing the Starter through the wheel well of a TB, I somehow managed to rupture two lumbar discs, suffer the loss of the use of my left leg and undergo a back operation that took me over a year and half to recover from.

Even so... after learning how to stand and walk with the assist of a cane... I STILL keep on working on the 2002 Trailblazer and two 4.2L Engines as well. So please don't give up on the problems just yet. Take a deep breath... grab a cup of coffee... and Work the Problem Thoughtfully. Soon enough... you will have things back together and running Loyally and Royally once again.

 

[Mooseman]

The Saab 9-7x and the rest of the GMT360 line are EXACTLY the same mechanically. Differences are only cosmetic.

Looked at the instructions in GM-SI and indeed you have to remove the starter to access the torque converter bolts. Someone here has replaced the starter without having to remove the crossmember but you might have to anyway. I wish I had better news for ya.

 

[HizAndHerz]

Thanks Mr. RSM for the encouragement. Sorry to hear of your physical difficulties. I haven't had anything serious like that, just a neurological condition that makes it difficult to hold and use tools plus a general fatigue that keeps me from working more than an hour of two a day. Generally, I only get 4 to 8 hours a week that I can work in the garage and even then I move very slow.

Mooseman,
I've got the wire off the back of the starter but it won't slide back more than an inch or two to allow access to the TC bolts. I'll be moving my jack stands around and trying to pull the crossmember later tonight. Thanks for the help.

 

[mrrsm]

A Small "Old Guy" H/J...

If your Doctor thinks it will help... Lyrica ( 2 x 75 mg capsules per day does the trick for me...) works like Magic to "quiet things down" with the Peripheral Nervous System and when the pain and discomfort subsides.. you should be able to "get a better grip" on things as long as no ALS or Parkinson's diseases are involved. This stuff punches Lupus Erthymatosis and other similar Fatigue Syndrome illnesses ...right in the jaw.

 

[Mooseman]

I found this thread for starter removal but unfortunately, the pics are gone.
http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-envoy-5-3-starter-replacement.13632/

Also found this at the OS:
http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=54226

With all this trouble, I would recommend that you replace the starter with a new one as a preventative measure just to avoid having to do this again later. I would.

 

[HizAndHerz]

If your Doctor thinks it will help... Lyrica ( 2 x 75 mg capsules per day does the trick for me...) works like Magic to "quiet things down" with the Peripheral Nervous System.

I'll look into Lyrica. I have Isaac's Syndrome (neuromyotonia) and have tried several medications, all had nasty side-effects and didn't help my condition. It took me 6 years and 6 doctors to get a diagnosis. The neurologist I last saw basically said "You aren't going to die from this, and I don't know much about PNH conditions but they are hard to treat, so you'll have to live with it." Of the 6 doctors I've seen, no one thought Lyrica was a possible treatment for PNH. I'll have to try to find another neurologist or ask my GP if he'll prescribe it.

If Lyrica helps, I'm going to owe you big time! This condition has me operating anywhere from 25% to 75%. Even my appearance has changed due to the large, painful nodules in my cheeks and forehead.

I have found that light work on cars seems to help, whereas other forms of exercise make things worse. I'm heading out to the garage now. This "little" flex plate project will not have me beat!

Thanks again,
-Jorns

 

[HizAndHerz]

I found this thread for starter removal but unfortunately, the pics are gone.
http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-envoy-5-3-starter-replacement.13632/

Also found this at the OS:
http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=54226

With all this trouble, I would recommend that you replace the starter with a new one as a preventative measure just to avoid having to do this again later. I would.

Yep, both posts say that the crossmember has to be removed. Just a little difference in how the starter was pulled out once the crossmember was out. Good advise on replacing the starter.

 

[Tiggerr]

I found this thread for starter removal but unfortunately, the pics are gone.
http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-envoy-5-3-starter-replacement.13632/

Also found this at the OS:
http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=54226

With all this trouble, I would recommend that you replace the starter with a new one as a preventative measure just to avoid having to do this again later. I would.

I know with my luck the starter would go out a week later lol

 

[HizAndHerz]

So, the rear steering crossmember came out easily once I realized that the GM FSM had multiple typos in it. I was able to push the starter to the side and remove the bell housing cover. I can get a 8mm hex socket on the TC bolt but there's only about 2" clearance for the handle of the socket wrench. Unfortunately, the wrench bends before the bolt will break loose. There's no way to get a torch in there to get heat on the bolt head. Time to think about this for a while.

So, there's some progress and hopefully I'll figure something out for the TC bolts for tomorrow.

 

[mrrsm]

Assuming the understanding that the two halves of the Torque Converter have all kinds of complicated "vaned gear" inside and that they are mostly made of Mild Steel... the three sturdy threaded metal pads that allow the Flex Plate to be bolted to the TC are usually welded on either side with the hole clean through the rectangular pad which should be sturdy enough to withstand short hammer hits on the end of THIS 8MM Hex Tool to loosen the TC Bolts little bit and perhaps provide enough Mechanical Advantage to finally coax them out of their "in-situ" Loctited torpor.

Of course if the hammering impacts are too forceful... denting and damaging the outside of the TC Shell is a possibility... so if you either use one of these... or get something cobbled together with the use of your own creative tool making following this basic idea... it would serve to let you get them out and then right back in with the least amount of fanfare ...and lessen the chance of the invention of Brand New Swear Words born of all your frustrations:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0012Q5XAS/?tag=gmtnation-20

 

[HizAndHerz]

...hammer hits on the end of THIS 8MM Hex Tool to loosen the TC Bolts little bit and perhaps provide enough Mechanical Advantage to finally coax them out of their "in-situ" Loctited torpor.

Man, I really appreciate you hanging in there with me and giving suggestions.

There's less than a couple of inches of clearance behind the heads of the bolts to get a ratchet in there. I had to cut my 8mm hex-head socket just to get it in there so there's no chance of getting a hammer behind it.

I did find a MAPP torch with a flexible hose that should allow me to get some heat on the bolt.

https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-CC...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0012Q5XAS

That's an awesome looking tool -- could be perfect for this job. You're right about cobbling something together. I have a whole drawer in my toolbox with tools that I've ground down and welded together. A couple of them are sockets cut to the perfect length to get the TC bolts out of old Datsun 280Z's.

I'm all rested up and heading to the garage shortly.

 

[HizAndHerz]

I took a week off from working on the Saab because I had to buy my wife a car to replace her 2004 Cadillac DHS that blew a head gasket. I bought a 2013 Nissan Maxima with 40000 miles on it for about $3K less than it is worth. It had bad front wheel hubs which were a piece of cake to replace -- about 45 minutes per side. It feels nice to tackle a job and finish it.

But today, wait for it... the FP-to-TC bolts are out!!!!

Here's the thing: the front rear steering crossmember has to come out to really get any kind of access to the bolts. That was a revelation -- something not in the FSM. After the crossmember was out, I used a 15mm ratcheting wrench shoved into a pipe to break the bolts loose.

I'm about to head back into the garage to see how hard the upper transmission bolts are to get out. I hope the intake doesn't have to come out to get to them. I just may be able to do the rear main seal and the flex plate this weekend.

 

[mrrsm]

If you have not ordered a replacement individual seal (which generally requires a Special K&N Tool after the Old Seal gets pried out of the removable cover) you might consider replacing the case cover and seal as an entire unit. The race edges of the Tail Bearing need to be very well cleaned with Lacquer Thinner to remove the old 'Oil Glazing" from the surfaces. The best RTV to use as required is the OEM AC-Delco Engine Sealer:



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Q0ZOHQ/?tag=gmtnation-20

Instead though... you might also consider a suggestion proffered by @Mooseman about getting the entire Rear Seal Engine Cover as a unit... and in doing so.,.. there is a nice Bonus. Here is a Youtube video I recently made to document all the information and let you get a look at the Old and the New Covers...side by side:

 

[Mooseman]

GM part number is 12633579. Not sure if it includes the gasket.

https://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/gm-housing-12633579.html

Dorman also has it and includes seal, gasket and new bolts.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3936834&cc=1440260&jsn=508

I had replaced just the seal on my '02 4.2L when I swapped it and I think I may have damaged it during installation as it leaked since being put into service in 2011. I'd recommend getting the whole cover.

 

[HizAndHerz]

The good news is that finally the transmission is out. The really bad news that the flex plate looks fine. That is the biggest surprise since all of my truck's symptoms pointed to the flex plate: a high pitched pinging from the bell housing that would come and go based on engine speed and transmission loading.

Best guess is that its the torque converter, right? I suspect that there is no way to test a torque converter when its off the transmission. There's no indication that the flex plate was rubbing against anything.

Right now, I'm thinking I'm going to replace the flex plate since I already have one, the starter and torque converter. AutoZone has a Dacco TC for $150. The main seal looks like it has been replaced as the cover looks brand new.

Thoughts?

 

[Capote]

The good news is that finally the transmission is out. The really bad news that the flex plate looks fine. That is the biggest surprise since all of my truck's symptoms pointed to the flex plate: a high pitched pinging from the bell housing that would come and go based on engine speed and transmission loading.

Best guess is that its the torque converter, right? I suspect that there is no way to test a torque converter when its off the transmission. There's no indication that the flex plate was rubbing against anything.

Right now, I'm thinking I'm going to replace the flex plate since I already have one, the starter and torque converter. AutoZone has a Dacco TC for $150. The main seal looks like it has been replaced as the cover looks brand new.

Thoughts?

Make absolutely SURE it's a "VJCX" torque converter, otherwise your stall will be at a lower range than factory. Your truck will work with a lower stall converter, but it will be a slug with the incorrect one.

If it's not the torque converter making this ping noise you hear, my only other guess in maybe something with the pump???

As far as testing the torque converter, there are ways to test out the stator and turbine when it's out of the truck:

 

[HizAndHerz]

Make absolutely SURE it's a "VJCX" torque converter, otherwise your stall will be at a lower range than factory. Your truck will work with a lower stall converter, but it will be a slug with the incorrect one.

I'm pretty sure the VJCX is for the I6. The TC in my Saab is labelled TMBX. To double confirm, I checked AutoZone and they list the VJCX converter for the I6 and list the TMBX for the V8.

http://www.autozone.com/powertrain/...transmission-torque-converter/917280_685485_0
Ironically, when I pull this up, it says it fits 5 of my 9 registered vehicles on AutoZone. I guess I'm still a GM guy

I don't think my TC would fail a simple bench test since my truck was driving fine except for the pinging from the bell housing at certain RPMs. The transmission fluid was clean and no metal present in the bottom of the pan so I have hopes that there are no issues with the pump. It would be awesome if I found a chunk of something clinking around in the torque converter when I pull it tomorrow -- ya' never know.

As always, thanks for the help.

 

[Capote]

I'm pretty sure the VJCX is for the I6. The TC in my Saab is labelled TMBX. To double confirm, I checked AutoZone and they list the VJCX converter for the I6 and list the TMBX for the V8.

http://www.autozone.com/powertrain/...transmission-torque-converter/917280_685485_0
Ironically, when I pull this up, it says it fits 5 of my 9 registered vehicles on AutoZone. I guess I'm still a GM guy

I don't think my TC would fail a simple bench test since my truck was driving fine except for the pinging from the bell housing at certain RPMs. The transmission fluid was clean and no metal present in the bottom of the pan so I have hopes that there are no issues with the pump. It would be awesome if I found a chunk of something clinking around in the torque converter when I pull it tomorrow -- ya' never know.

As always, thanks for the help.

Ahhhhh right right, I forgot we're not dealing with an I6 at all lol, you've got that sexy 9-7x on your hands there. Disregard my Torque Converter comment, but the bench testing will work regardless of what kind it is.

 

[HizAndHerz]

I found this video that sounds very similar to what I was getting (fast forward to 0:33 for the sound with the engine running) but all of the TC bolts were tight:

Several of the responses to that video say it was the bendix return spring on the starter. That was the first thing I noticed when I got the starter out: the bendix didn't always return to its resting position when I moved it outward with my finger. Shoot, this whole problem may have been my starter. More tomorrow.

 

[Capote]

I found this video that sounds very similar to what I was getting (fast forward to 0:33 for the sound with the engine running) but all of the TC bolts were tight:

Only time I ever had that exact noise was when one torque converter bolt was loose. Which I ultimately think started the eventual demise of the cracked flex-plate I had by compromising the structural integrity of it as it kept hitting. That noise has to be the stator or turbine in your case and in that one in the video.

 

[HizAndHerz]

Ok, here's the video I wish I had seen before I pulled my transmission:

My Saab doesn't have a cracked flex plate or a bad torque converter. The starter has a bad bendix return spring. Geez - I'm speechless.

 

[HizAndHerz]

When I unbolted the starter, I inspected the gear for wear and it looked fine. Instead of pulling the starter out, I just pushed it to the side. If I had pulled the starter, I might have noticed the pinion gear flopping around and said "Ah-ha!". But that's not happened. So, live and learn the hard way: fully diagnose the problem before pulling things apart. Without full diagnosis, it's kind of like surgeon saying "well, we're just going to open you up and we should find the problem."

The flex plate has no significant wear on the teeth - there's no evidence that the starter gear was rubbing against it. I'm going to return the flex plate and rear main seal and get a new starter. Need to consider replacing the TC and FP bolts. Either way, I'm going to use blue lock-tight.

The challenge I now have is getting the transmission back up. The cheap Harbor Freight transmission jack (pictured in one of the earlier posts) collapsed as I lowered the transmission. I'm going to buy the 800lb jack from HB and hope that I can transfer the trans from the old jack to new the one under the truck.

 

[Capote]

When I unbolted the starter, I inspected the gear for wear and it looked fine. Instead of pulling the starter out, I just pushed it to the side. If I had pulled the starter, I might have noticed the pinion gear flopping around and said "Ah-ha!". But that's not happened. So, live and learn the hard way: fully diagnose the problem before pulling things apart. Without full diagnosis, it's kind of like surgeon saying "well, we're just going to open you up and we should find the problem."

The flex plate has no significant wear on the teeth - there's no evidence that the starter gear was rubbing against it. I'm going to return the flex plate and rear main seal and get a new starter. Need to consider replacing the TC and FP bolts. Either way, I'm going to use blue lock-tight.

The challenge I now have is getting the transmission back up. The cheap Harbor Freight transmission jack (pictured in one of the earlier posts) collapsed as I lowered the transmission. I'm going to buy the 800lb jack from HB and hope that I can transfer the trans from the old jack to new the one under the truck.

Is there anyone who can assist you in raising the transmission? Each of you can balance the trans and raise it slowly with one of your legs pumping down on the jack handle hard. That's how me and my bud did it without a transmission adapter for a jack.

 

[mrrsm]

X2^ Call in any ‘old favors’ if you need to amongst friends… but given your present physically limiting realities… this can’t be done alone. Since my situation required an R&R of mine… I had to slide the transmission off the HF Jack to get the old one out from under the car… and then I needed my son’s help while working on both sides of the SUV. It further required using Duct Taped phone books a few at a time to gradually coax the lumpy heavy New 4160E back on top of the HF Jack. We looked like a couple of Ancient Egyptian slaves trying to coax the Cap Stone up the ramp of the Pyramid of Cheops on our bellies while struggling with it all. Having a triple layer of cardboard did make sliding it around a bit easier and prevented damaging the Aluminum core-case.

Just for the sake of clarity… Did you use one of your own scissor-style jacks that you mentioned as having previously… or was it a New Harbor Freight 450 Lb Scissor Jack that failed? The reason I ask is that that even with an approximate full Boat Load of Transmission Fluid… the 4L60E Transmission and Torque Converter only weighs in at around 200 Lbs. The only circumstance I can imagine causing it to drop suddenly would be if the entire weight of the vehicle was accidentally applied to it while being strapped up to the Transmission.

One other suggestion worth mentioning is that if your vehicle is entirely supported by other Jack Stands and not Truck Ramps… perhaps removing the Passenger Side Wheel would give you enough room to slide the Transmission out from under the vehicle for remounting it on the 800 Lb version. Not having one to assess it's height though means that you might have an easier time mounting your Transmission on the 800 Lb Jack… and STILL not have enough clearance to slide everything right back under the vehicle. The new jack would have to be extremely low is its profile to make it happen.

 

[HizAndHerz]

Thanks guys.

I stacked 4x4's under the transmission at each end and was able to slide the broken jack from under it. I had a second transmission jack that had a broken caster. I used a caster from the collapsed jack to fix the other jack. I'm returning the collapsed jack to HF tomorrow.

So, the transmission is bolted to the engine and the new starter is on. Just need to get the steering crossmembers in, then the exhaust, front drive shaft, transfer case, transmission mount and rear crossmember. Probably two days more work.

Thanks again for the help and encouragement.

 

[HizAndHerz]

Just need to get the steering crossmembers in, then the exhaust, front drive shaft, transfer case, transmission mount and rear crossmember. Probably two days more work.

And 8 days later I'm having to pull the transfer case and cross-member out again because I didn't realize that there was no way to plug in the front oxygen sensors with the transmission bolted down. The wiring harness connector for the driver's side front oxygen sensor is right on top of the transmission. The front drive shaft keeps you from even trying to get your hand in there to reach it. I'm hoping I can get to the connector by tilting the transmission and motor once I get the cross-member and transfer case out.

I'm learning the hard way that the designers did not consider how time consuming even the most common repairs might be. The FSM is useless for many repairs because they just copied the pictures from the I6 section of the manual into the V8 sections of the manual.

I'm just happy that I've had the time and been healthy enough to work on it.

 

[Mooseman]

Driver side is easy. Just disconnect the front drive shaft from the diff and move it aside. Tape the u-joint cups to keep them in place and losing all the needle bearings (ask me how I know). Passenger side is an absolute b!tch. With my oversized hoof, I had to squeeze through the wheel well past the exhaust pipe and click the connector for the sensor into the connector which is retained high up on the bellhousing. I had to break the clip that was retaining it and pull on it to gain about 1/4". Took me about two hours just for that connector. My hand was all cramped and my arm looked like I was in a fight with a feral cat. I wanted to throat punch a GM engineer.