Crank No Start (FIXED)

[fletch09]

09 TB , I6, 4 x 4, 78K.
for the last week have been noticing a slower kick over(delayed reaction) to start.
instead of instant start when key turned. turns over hard slow 2 times.
today, after hard starting 4 -5 times, no crank, just 1 click. (thankfully it was in my driveway).
took battery out, had tested, replaced under warranty. ($0.00)
but new battery in, same problem, no crank , 1click.
took new battery out, took to store and had tested, tested ok.
got new starter relay for engine fuse box. no change.
looked at May's video on no crank. per his test, he had power at 3 pins and a jump of 30 & 87, should crank starter.
i had power (light) @ 86, no power @ 87, and no power @ 85. (hook to pos and turn key)
just tried starting in Neutral it actually tried to turn over, but seemed like not enough power to turn over.
What to check Next ????
thoughts? ignition Switch, stater itself??
do have an ignition switch on hand just in case.
thanks in advance for advise.

 

[littleblazer]

Maybe put a meter on the battery and see what the voltage is. Then check while someone holds the key in crank to see what it changes to. If it drops significantly then look at the grounds and positive connections at the starter, block and battery terminals. If those check out then it could be the starter. It almost sounds hydrolocked to me but that should be pretty much impossible. It could be a dead or dying starter too.

 

[mrrsm]

09 TB , I6, 4 x 4, 78K.
I had power (light) @ 86, no power @ 87, and no power @ 85. (hook to pos and turn key)
just tried starting in Neutral it actually tried to turn over, but seemed like not enough power to turn over. What to check Next ????

Have a look at this video on testing automotive relays off the vehicle with really good feature diagrams and explanations. There are actually THREE necessary tests and he does a good job of diagramming how to test your RELAY(S) as possibly being the culprit. These tests require the following tools:

Decent ohming Multimeter
Pair of Red (+) and Green (-) Test wires with Alligator Clips soldered on all four ends
12 Volt Battery or Power Supply holding 12 VDC
Continuity Test Light:

Now... to test the starter WITHOUT HAVING TO PULL IT: (Same Principles: Different Vehicle)

 

[Mooseman]

When you jumped 30 and 87, did it crank or it did the same thing?

 

[fletch09]

No crank on 30, 87 jump

 

[littleblazer]

Do you get a click or anything?

 

[Mooseman]

At the starter, there are two wires, the big 12V+ and the smaller one. Check that you have 12V+ at the big wire and then short the two wires. It should crank. If not, the starter is dead.

 

[fletch09]

Thank you gentlemen for the replies.
Did the tests in the 2 vids.
Relay checks ok, even the new 1 I picked up checked ok.
Did the pos and neg crank test to starter, have 12+ V on both tests.
Took off driver front wheel for better access.
Ground to frame is solid and no corrosion.
Both connection to starter tight, no corrosion.
Do get 1 click on key turn, but that's it.
As noted before, will barely turn over in neutral start.
So I'm guessing, starter is shot.
Conformation ? Consensus ?
Edit: did not see the post about jumping starter. But everything is back together.

 

[littleblazer]

I would tend to think it's the starter. If you want to try it, you could pull the plugs and see if it'll turn over... but I really doubt that it magically hydrolocked. You would have gotten a sign or something.

 

[fletch09]

You have mentioned hydro lock twice, please elaborate.
Thought that happened if water got in thru your air intake.

 

[Mooseman]

That's what hydrolock is, which I doubt very much unless it went swimming.

Click comes from the starter? I think the starter is shot as well. Shorting the two wires on the starter will confirm this.

 

[littleblazer]

You would have to have a horrible coolant leak. You would have noticed it if it happened. I vote starter... but it is strange for such low mileage.

 

[fletch09]

will check coolant, but it has not been swimming. 1 time, over 40K ago, i went thru a creek and had some short lived electrical problems, that went away. but nothing since.
creek jumping:

 

[littleblazer]

Yea, I wouldn't worry about it if it hasn't been running weird.

 

[mrrsm]

Who is the "U-Boat Commander" of the SS-TRAILBLAZER in the photo...? Anybody we know? LOL

 

[triz]

Fuel pump?

 

[mrrsm]

This is Paul "Scanner" Danner doing a video out of his usual classroom white board instructional series on Youtube called "ScannerDanner" and here, he is focused on "The No Crank- No Start" Scenario of a disabled JEEP that is both conversational and is very unique for he is using a Live Diagram to perform his "Wire Trace and Component Chase" to sort out each area of possible electrical failure, so perhaps it might prove conceptually useful here as well:

 

[fletch09]

Who is the "U-Boat Commander" of the SS-TRAILBLAZER in the photo...? Anybody we know? LOL

That's me. and not an SS.
there was a cement road under the water. water was about 8-10" deep.
as mentioned, that was about 40K ago.

TB is currently on it's way to garage for a new a starter. my mechanic friend is pretty sure that is the problem.
will report back once fixed.

 

[littleblazer]

That's me. and not an SS.
there was a cement road under the water. water was about 8-10" deep.
as mentioned, that was about 40K ago.

TB is currently on it's way to garage for a new a starter. my mechanic friend is pretty sure that is the problem.
will report back once fixed.

By SS he meant boat. Just saying. Keep us updated.

 

[fletch09]

By SS he meant boat. Just saying. Keep us updated.

took me a minute.

 

[Sparky]

What happened to my old starter was the contacts inside the solenoid burned up. It would throw the solenoid, but wouldn't make connection to the actual starter motor (or a weak one) and would do nothing.

 

[mrrsm]

By SS he meant boat. Just saying. Keep us updated.

Darn it...! I missed my chance at a more or less "tongue in cheek" funny by NOT using the old (and possibly politically incorrect term) of the WWII German moniker of UB-TrailBlazer (Unter Boat)... That's what I get for joking around BEFORE Fletch can get the TB Fix finalized!

By SS he meant boat. Just saying. Keep us updated.

.

 

[mrrsm]

What happened to my old starter was the contacts inside the solenoid burned up. It would throw the solenoid, but wouldn't make connection to the actual starter motor (or a weak one) and would do nothing.

*Sighs* In the by-gone days... The Solenoid used to be a component that was completely separate from the Starter Motor and was generally mounted at waist level adjacent to the fender well, very close to the battery. In those salad days... you could change one in 5 Minutes while wearing an Evening Tuxedo and not get so much as a speck of dirt on your white cotton party gloves. Nowadays..for all that we have to do to get a Solenoid/Starter out is tantamount to Midnight Spelunking with a worn out helmet light battery! So much for "Modern Engineering".

The reason they did this is as plain as the nose on my old kisser... They would have had to use an extra 4 -5 feet of 10 Gauge REAL Copper Wire at $3.98 per pound spot value on the Stock Market. No sense wasting good dividend money on "The Great Unwashed" buying customers. If they wanted to save weight... they would done better to fire half of their engineering staff working on Overblown Bumpers and Grills Designs. This is the same reason our bridges, roads and electrical "backcloth" infrastructure barely holding up in support of this Great Nation of Ours will never get updated. Sorry for the HJ...

 

[fletch09]

FIXED. it was the starter.
Thanks to all that offered assistance.
even the reference to my "Boat". even though it took me a minute to grasp it,
it was funny.