Collapsed lifter.......

RedRocketZ28

Member
May 16, 2014
114
http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/234-2503.pdf

Straight from their website. I've never used lube during the countless installs of an ARP crank bolt as I usually never have anything on hand. I've done numerous cam installs and engine builds with LS cars/trucks and have never had an issue.
 

New Envoy

Original poster
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Oct 20, 2012
56
Thanks for the link! But, I got more questions, of course.... On the lifters, we use to have to soak them in oil overnight before we installed them. With the new roller lifters, do I still need to do that? Also, with the new cam and lifters, is there any kind of a break in procedure?
 

mrrsm

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The Roller Lifters do not require the usual "U-Boat Commander" Dunking in a Can of Oil and Plunger actuation with a Push-Rod to purge air and ingest the oil. These have Needle Bearings on tiny axles that get lubed from the passing oil in the block and do not require anything more than a good external dousing with Motor Oil.

Unlike standard Cast Iron Camshaft Blanks... Most modern Roller Camshafts have two things going for them: (1) They are mainly machined from Billet Steel and not Brittle Cast Iron...and... (2) Their camshaft lift lobe profiles are much less extreme than either Solid or Hydraulic Camshafts wth Solid Faced Lifters and therefore they have an easier relationship with less extremes of pressure between the rolling component inside of the lifters and the gentle transition of pressure that involves greatly reduced friction and wear from camshaft lobes that are more gently shaped, elliptically.

Ergo... unless your New Camshaft is an after-market one, with a higher performance component profile that specifies otherwise, such as the need for stronger Valve Springs and Keepers... Roller Camshafts and Roller Lifters and Roller Rockers have no need for any such break-in period. This attached video has some interesting information on much of the data (not all of course) that you seek and could prove very helpful as a "freeze-frame" reference as you go along with the project. Props to this Young Man for doing such a Good Job:

 
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New Envoy

Original poster
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Oct 20, 2012
56
Oh nice, now I need to take my new lifters back out, and make sure I got them in the right way. Oh well, better to do it now, then have a problem later.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
I soaked the lifters in oil. They are hydraulic so having as much oil as possible inside the lifter body is preferable. I soaked mine for a week but overnight should suffice.
 

New Envoy

Original poster
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Oct 20, 2012
56
Well, and they way I see it is, even if it's not needed, it really can't hurt.
 

New Envoy

Original poster
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Oct 20, 2012
56
OK, on the video, he is using the thread sealant on the head bolts? I've never heard of this. I don't remember any of the ones I pulled out having anything on them.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Ottawa, ON
Yeah, it's because Haynes is saying so but the new TTY bolts come with sealant pre-applied. I didn't add any to mine.
 

New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
Hummm, I went with the ARP bolt upgrade. So, I am not using the TTY bolts. So, I should use the sealant? Now there was a little pack of something in with the bolts, but I think it was a thread lubricant?
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
In that case, I'd use a little.
 

RedRocketZ28

Member
May 16, 2014
114
You can use the ARP lube or a little engine oil.
 

New Envoy

Original poster
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Oct 20, 2012
56
What I was talking about was the video that someone posted. It showed the guy using form-a-gasket thread sealer on the head bolts. I've just never heard of or used any "sealer" on head bolts. And, like I said, the bolts came out clean. I can see using a lube, either the ARP lube or clean oil. But an actual form-a-gasket, sjust sounded odd.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
For whatever reason, I thought you got studs, which is what ARP are famous for. But you have bolts. If you got lube with them, use that. Use a little under the bolt head too for an accurate torque.
 

New Envoy

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Oct 20, 2012
56
So, use the lube, not form-a-gasket. That's what I was thinking too, but wanted to double check.
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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New Envoy

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Oct 20, 2012
56
I took the lifters back out and they are soaking in the oil bath. And, from looking at it I think I know the answer bit wanted to double check, there are some holes on the side at the bottom of the lifters. It looks like they should be pointing down towards the ground, right?
 

mrrsm

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"Make sure the Lifter is Installed with the open oil feed hole exposed to the main Oil galley. so that would mean it goes towards the top(the oil hole)..."

http://www.chevyavalanchefanclub.com/cafcna/index.php?topic=115952.0

Valve Lifter Installation:


    • Important: When using the valve lifters again, install the lifters to their original locations.
      If camshaft replacement is required, the valve lifters must also be replaced.
    • Lubricate the valve lifters and engine block valve lifter bores with clean engine oil.
    • Insert the valve lifters into the lifter guides. Align the flat area on the top of the lifter with the flat area in the lifter guide bore. Push the lifter completely into the guide bore.
    • Install the valve lifters and guide assembly to the engine block.

      Notice: Use the correct fastener in the correct location. Replacement fasteners must be the correct part number for that application. Fasteners requiring replacement or fasteners requiring the use of thread locking compound or sealant are identified in the service procedure. Do not use paints, lubricants, or corrosion inhibitors on fasteners or fastener joint surfaces unless specified. These coatings affect fastener torque and joint clamping force and may damage the fastener. Use the correct tightening sequence and specifications when installing fasteners in order to avoid damage to parts and systems.
    • Install the valve lifter guide bolt (1).
      Tighten
      Tighten the valve lifter guide bolt to 12 N·m (106 lb in).
 
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New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
OK, update time. Started putting it back together today. Got almost everything done. But, had to stop at the intake manifold. Need intake manifold gaskets, and the gaskets/O rings for the coolant cross over pipe. But, everything seemed to go back together with out any real issues. Left the spark plugs out and cranked the engine over, and its showing oil pressure. Hopefully, get the rest of the parts tomorrow and get it knocked out.
 

New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
Ok, got all the parts, even got them all on! Fired it up and it actually started really easily. Its like knows its fixed and whats to run! The only issue know is I don't have any heat in the cab. Radiator is full, overflow tank is full, double checked the belt routing to make sure the water pump is turning the right way, tried bleeding it through the coolant crossover pipe. The temp gauge shows warm, but not overheating. But cabin air is cool. Pretty sure its just got a stuck air pocket. Any tips to get the air out?
 
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Mike534x

Member
Apr 9, 2012
894
When you bled the system, did you loosen the bolt for the steam vent that sits at the top of the block? I had an issue the year before when I replaced the thermostat (found out the new one was faulty) that there's a particular way you need to bleed the system on these trucks.

Here's my thread with the help I received from everyone that chimed in. Maybe it can apply to your issue in some way?

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/bad-thermostat.14083/
 

New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
Well kinda.... I'm mine there isn't a steam bolt. It's a small tube that goes to a rubber hose, that goes to the line to the heater core. But yes, I did pull it off to try and bleed it that way. Did get some air out, but didn't seem to help.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
That crossover pipe has a bolt on each head. I would loosen both. That hose is too small in my opinion to burp enough air out.

I did neither. Not aware of this bleeding procedure, I filled it and the thermostat wasn't opening, which explained why I was getting no heat. So I figured I'd just drive it to get it hot to open the t-stat. Well, it went to just over half way to overheat, then she eventually opened and the temps dropped like a rock back to normal. Topped up the rad and good to go. Was scary as all hell though :yikes:
 

New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
Ya, I hear you on the scary part! I haven't touched it in a couple hours. To let it cool back off. I will try loosening both sides up next, can't hurt. If that doesn't work, may just rev the snot out of it and see what happens. But, so far, everything looks good. Back together, run, quiet, no leaks so far. I was waiting to get it all back together to sent the pcm out. But, looks like I'm ready for that now.
 

C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
Good luck with the burping, @New Envoy . I think I'm going to do it to mine. Ever since the dealer replaced my water pump last year (under warranty), it has a nice gurgle in the dash when I get on the gas sometimes.

Thanks for the link to your thread, @Mike534x .
 

New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
Ok, got the air out. I found another thread that mentioned taking the ECT sensor out to let the air have a way to get out of the head. I though it was a great idea. But, when I took the sensor out, all I got was coolant. What I did do was refill everything, start the truck up, rev it up to about 1700 rpm's. After just a couple of minutes, I had heat. I continued to keep it reved up for about ten minutes, just to be sure. Had heat the whole time. Then, I let it idle for about another ten minutes. Again, had heat the whole time and the gauge never went over 200 degrees. So, Im pretty sure that's done with.

All that's left is the tune. Went out to take the PCM out, and cant get the plugs off! I flipped the little plastic levers back, but the plugs themselves aren't moving. Now, I know, this is a pretty important part of the truck. So, before I get violent with it, is there any thing Im missing? A hidden tab, or latch, holding them in?
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
After lifting the arm and pushing the arm, you should be able to wiggle it off. The arm acts as a pusher beyond half way. Might stick a bit from the rubber seal. A slight wiggle and pull should do it.
 

New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
And, just for the record, and to help anyone else out, this is how I ended up on the money end of it.
The biggest thing was the "kit" from Texas Speed. It was $740. I had heard from others on here that it was over priced, and I kinda thought so too. But, I really liked the idea of the "kit". The problem is that it isn't what I would consider a true kit.I had to go out and buy the exhaust manifold gaskets ($16), the intake manifold gaskets ($60), the O rings for the coolant crossover tube (got the assortment kit $8), the oil pump O ring ($3). And, while I had the heads off, I had mine re-done at the machine shop. That was another $366. Two of the original exhaust manifold bolts were broke off in the head, so I got a new set of bolts for that $50. Also went ahead and put new plugs and wires back in the new heads, another $87. Oil change and filter $30. 4 gallons of new antifreeze $44. Timing chain ($26). Plus about another $50-$75 just for odds and ends, hose clamps, engine assembly lube, cleaners, etc. And don't forget still got $100 to go to lime swap for the pcm tune. So all said and done, I'll have about $1500 - $1600 in it total. But, that's still cheaper than a new truck!

I would did it over two weekends. Didn't touch it during the week at all. And was pretty easy to get it done in that time frame. All in all, job wasn't that bad. Its not as easy as an oil change, but not impossible. I left the left manifold on the exhaust pipe. Was able to work around it fairly easily. The right side manifold, lets just say its way easier to go ahead and take it off the pipe. Makes so much more room! Also, I was able to remove a clamp on the right side inner fender and the AC compressor will actually move enough that you don't have to open that system up.

Hope this helps someone else out. Like I say, its a big job, but not one that cant be done. Just know what your getting into before you start.

And oh ya, almost forgot, I have to throw a big thanks out to Mooseman, and all the others that helped me get through this. Thanks guys!
 
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C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
Those plugs have a lot of pins, so there is a lot of "sticktion" keeping everything together. Wiggle a little, pull back, wiggle, pull, wiggle, pull, etc ad nausem until it pops free.

One thing to remember - your engine and year should have two modules, one for the engine and one for the transmission. That's if you want tranny mods. Rather than pull both out, I drove over to the other side of the state and let him program it in the vehicle when I had an appt. over there.
 

Mike534x

Member
Apr 9, 2012
894
One thing to remember - your engine and year should have two modules, one for the engine and one for the transmission. That's if you want tranny mods. Rather than pull both out, I drove over to the other side of the state and let him program it in the vehicle when I had an appt. over there.

I wasn't aware the 05's had two modules, good to know when I yank mine to have the tune done. So would you send the Tranny module in to have the shifts firmed up, or is that still done through the PCM?
 

New Envoy

Original poster
Member
Oct 20, 2012
56
I was emailing back and forth with Jeremy, and he didn't mention anything about the tranny module. So, I'm guessing he can do it with just the pcm. But, not positive.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
No, he needs the TCM too. They're tuned as a pair.
 

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