Alignment

[MTouz]

Flipped UCA's and Marks 3" suspension lift.

 

[The_Roadie]

Caster doesn't mean so much, but what was their explanation for charging you and not even attempting to get your camber back into spec? Did they (as many shops do) think that we don't have a camber adjustment? We certainly do, and it involves loosening the three LCA mounting bolts.

 

[MTouz]

Dang...I questioned things with it. But the sales guy pretty much told me that just the toe could be adjusted. And me not knowing to much about it just said ok. Cause I thought the numbers looked decent. Hmm...so should I monitor my tires? And rotate more or try for another alignment? Eh!! Lol not like I don't monitor my tire wear but will it be more so wear.

Thanks
Mike

 

[The_Roadie]

..the sales guy pretty much told me that just the toe could be adjusted. ...

An incompetent goofball or a liar. Either way, they owe you a re-do. Sorry you missed the previous discussions about it. I can do an approximate toe-in on a trail 20 miles from pavement when I break a tie rod end and take the 15 minutes to change it.

Many incompetent or crooked alignment shops claim (as if we were some sort of lame McPherson strut design) there is no camber or caster adjustment. Shun those shops and flee. They're not worthy to be touching your truck.

 

[MTouz]

Well.....dang! Guess come monday I'll be doin some talking. But I doubt I'll take it back to them again. Dude seemed unpleasent to begin with. Took it in monday to have them align it and told me the inner and outer tie rods were bad. So I fixed them and took it back to them. He seemed less than thrilled at the time.

So, on to another shop....and explain to them "they CAN" adjust my camber.

Thanks for your input Roadie!
Mike

 

[Sparky]

Yeah I'd get that looked at again, otherwise no matter how much you watch the tires the outer edge will wear faster.

My shop got mine in spec no issue. Granted I'm on the 2.5" lift so a 3" might be just enough to max out some adjustments, but they should be able to get it much closer than that.

 

[The_Roadie]

Did you confirm for yourself that both sides inner AND outer were indeed bad before the swap? Crooked shops love to lie. As you now know.

 

[MTouz]

Did you confirm for yourself that both sides inner AND outer were indeed bad before the swap? Crooked shops love to lie. As you now know.

Yeah my inner was floppy. Way over due. And the outer wasn't much better.

 

[xtitan1]

Dude, don't drink and align.



Not to thread jack, but is a -.06 degrees on the front right toe measurement a big deal (shop's suggested range: -.05 to .15)? I told them to just leave it since it was a free check but they wanted $80 to put it back. Everything else was in range, although some stuff only slightly.

 

[seanpooh]

Everything can be adjusted to spec if you go to a shop that actually understands.

I went to belletire, told me the same thing about caster and camber cannot be adjusted.

Went to the dealership the next day, they did all the adjustments spot on. Took it back to belle tire with their paper work and got my money back no questions asked. The manger also looked like he had something shoved in a place where the sun don't shine.

I still go to to do a safety inspection to tell me if my tie rods or wheel hub bearings need changed since they have lifts. Even though their labor cost is $20/hr, their parts cost 2-3X retail, so they make more than the dealership. Imagine paying over $300 for a wheel hub bearing that's generic but only $60 for them to install. I asked them if I bought my own parts if they can install it, "we cannot do that."

There is a reason why some places charge a cheap price. Then again, the dealership isn't the most perfect place either. They charge $90 because I have a truck and it requires a "4 wheel alignment." They also didn't torque my LCA bolts to spec so when I braked really hard, the wheels went in this one time. I just get so tired with these places.

So all in all, I remove my front sway bar and carry along the spec torque sheet before an alignment and tell them how to do their job.

 

[MTouz]

Update....I've been driving around as it is after the crap alignment. Scheduled an appointment with a shop that specializes in suspension and front end work. The guy over the phone seemed very informative and kind of laughed about the shop I took it too. I didn't want to go back there because of the service "vibe" I got from the salesmen. So tomorrow TB goes back in!

On another note....with the alignement off would it make the front sound almost like roaring kind of like a bad wheel hub? Kind of know what a wheel hub sounds like goin bad, as I replaced driver side like 6 months ago. I can't tell if its something with the hub or the alignement. I do know there was no sound before the lift.

Thanks
Mike

 

[Playsinsnow]

Update....I've been driving around as it is after the crap alignment. Scheduled an appointment with a shop that specializes in suspension and front end work. The guy over the phone seemed very informative and kind of laughed about the shop I took it too. I didn't want to go back there because of the service "vibe" I got from the salesmen. So tomorrow TB goes back in!

On another note....with the alignement off would it make the front sound almost like roaring kind of like a bad wheel hub? Kind of know what a wheel hub sounds like goin bad, as I replaced driver side like 6 months ago. I can't tell if its something with the hub or the alignement. I do know there was no sound before the lift.

Thanks
Mike

Is the noise persistent? All the time? Only on corners? It could be that the tire alignment is out of whack too causing the inside or outside to rub the ground for a slight "howl"? I'd park it and bring it in asap. Save the tires!

 

[MTouz]

Yeah a howl is more like the sound I hear. And its more so going straight. Seems to die down making a turn.

It is going into the shop tomorrow morning 9:00am

 

[Playsinsnow]

If the tires are the same as before the lift and have adequate air pressure, I would guess an alignment is due. I get bad vibes too, I drove almost 70 miles yesterday to a shop so they could loosen my rusted and stripped rear diff plug. Out the door 10mins after walking in. Told him to keep the receipt, I'll be back!

 

[MTouz]

Not the same tires. I put on 265/70/17 factory rims. But its heading to the shop in the morning. So hopefully that remedies the problem.

 

[Playsinsnow]

All-Terrain tires can be noisy. Some a lot worse than others. You get mud tires? Sorry if I missed this if you commented already. Some new AT's can howl loudly down the road.

 

[MTouz]

They are Nitto Terra Grapplers, I believe they are a AT tire. A little bit more aggressive. I actually had them on when I had my 2.5" lift but then put it back to stock for a while. I don't think its the more aggressive tire I'm hearing....Either the half assed alignment or my wheel bearing is goin out again.

 

[Playsinsnow]

At least they will show you how out of whack it is with a printout before they do anything. They better lol.

 

[MTouz]

Well got it back into specs this morning.

As for the 1st shop...made a phone call talked to some DM and he made his phone calls, They will be sending me out a check for the alignment they didn't finish. I like knowing I have money coming in the mail. :wootwoot:

Thanks for the input Roadie and others that gave info.

Playinsnow: The howl didn't totally go away but isn't as load. So I might be leaning towards its the tires. Atleast my fingers are crossed that its not a hub. lol It would be nice if it would hold out until after the cold weather!!

Thanks
Mike

 

[salvo2002]

Everything can be adjusted to spec if you go to a shop that actually understands.

I went to belletire, told me the same thing about caster and camber cannot be adjusted.

Went to the dealership the next day, they did all the adjustments spot on. Took it back to belle tire with their paper work and got my money back no questions asked. The manger also looked like he had something shoved in a place where the sun don't shine.

I still go to to do a safety inspection to tell me if my tie rods or wheel hub bearings need changed since they have lifts. Even though their labor cost is $20/hr, their parts cost 2-3X retail, so they make more than the dealership. Imagine paying over $300 for a wheel hub bearing that's generic but only $60 for them to install. I asked them if I bought my own parts if they can install it, "we cannot do that."

There is a reason why some places charge a cheap price. Then again, the dealership isn't the most perfect place either. They charge $90 because I have a truck and it requires a "4 wheel alignment." They also didn't torque my LCA bolts to spec so when I braked really hard, the wheels went in this one time. I just get so tired with these places.

So all in all, I remove my front sway bar and carry along the spec torque sheet before an alignment and tell them how to do their job.

Couldn't agree more. The shop I went to told me I needed LBJs before they would do anything. They wanted $140 per LBJ (ACDelco 46D2296A) and $180 to install them. I told them I would do it myself and bring it back for an alignment. I was able to get the same part off Amazon for $20 a piece! Rented the 23 piece Ball Joint Press kit from Advance auto and installed them myself.

Two excellent points you mention: #1: Torque spec! Make sure the shop knows the correct torque spec AND make sure they torque it properly. #2: its a 2 wheel alignment for us, don't let the shop fool you.

I've got this setup, and was able to get everything in spec.
MarkMc 3" Suspension Lift
Bilstein F4-BE5-A333-H0 Front Struts
Bilstein 5125 220/75 (P/N 33-185552) Rear Shocks
Z71 Rear Springs (P/N 15234633/25978750)
Swapped and flipped UCAs

 

[paul2005tb]

I just called a local Chevy dealer, the service rep said they would not do a front alignment on a Chevy vehicle with a lift.

 

[djthumper]

Why go to a dealer?

 

[Sparky]

I just called a local Chevy dealer, the service rep said they would not do a front alignment on a Chevy vehicle with a lift.

Because you did something different from other people. Not surprising. They'll tell you everything you've done is "wrong" and tell you they have to put it back to factory to be "safe" or whatever. Maybe until they are blue in the face if they're that type.

The only thing I use the dealer for is dealer-only parts, and recalls (which I've never had but w/e). I haven't let any of them do any work on my vehicles yet, haven't needed to.

Go to an independent shop.

 

[djthumper]

My dealer loves the lifted TB when it is in. I only use them for recalls and stop in for dealer only parts.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

My buddy owns a dealer and sells tons of lifted truck and they service them all...even what they did not lift or sell. Forget that dealer and find a decent place to work with if you need something like alignment done.

 

[littleblazer]

My local buick gmc wouldn't touch the sierra because of the tune. Guess I should've told them it was leveled as well.

Edit: No we didn't figure that out. It has a factory flashed pcm in it.

 

[paul2005tb]

My buddy owns a dealer and sells tons of lifted truck and they service them all...even what they did not lift or sell. Forget that dealer and find a decent place to work with if you need something like alignment done.

So I talked to a few places and finally walked into my local Pepboys where I buy allot of my parts.

I talked to one of their mechanic/technicians and he understood exactly how to adjust the camber and caster on the TB. He was a young guy too. He said he is aware of the basic geometry and how it is done and that he can do it. I showed him the lift and how the camber was too positive and needs to be adjusted. The lift never phased him. I will bring it in on Thursday.

These shops have state of the art alignment equipment, I would love to do it myself, with strings under tension and plumb lines but I think this one is best left to the pros.

 

[paul2005tb]

Question: Does the 2" rear lift cause a deviation in thrust angle ? Does this need to be considered in a wheel alignment ?

 

[Sparky]

Extremely minor perhaps, due to the swing of the panhard, but nothing anything close to worrying about. Plus, you can't adjust that anyway unless you get custom trailing arms.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Some of us run adjustable panhard bars to recenter the rear axle.

 

[paul2005tb]

Got my alignmet done at pepboys: here are the final numbers, (sorry I have not figured out how to upload the image to the site)

Before alignmet

Caster: Left 2.9 Right 3.5
Camber: Left 1.2 Right 1.2 (it looked like it was more positive than that after the lift)
Toe: Left .25 Right .20 (always loved the way my vehicle tracked straight on the highway)



After alignment :

Caster: Left 3.0 Right 3.6 (every time he tried to get this number in the green the camber went out of spec)

I cant notice any problem or difference

Camber: Left -0.1 Right 0.1
Toe: Left .10 Right .10


Id prefer a touch more toe but ill wait until a new set of tires (32in) to add more.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Sounds about right.

 

[Sparky]

Of all the ones to be out of spec caster is the least worrysome. Camber and toe can chew tires, caster really won't.