05 TB EXT LT I6 towing

[Speedman_2001]

Ok guys... I'm sure it's been discussed as I've been reading around a bit but I'm looking for feedback on exactly what I'm looking at.

TB is an 05 EXT LT I6 4x4 (haven't checked the gear ratio yet).

I'm looking at pulling a 33' (tip to tip) 5700 lb dry camper with about 3-400 lbs of cargo. Call it 6200 total. Dealership is saying it shouldn't be a problem, I'll know it's back there but can safely pull it.

Definitely will be adding sway control and weight distribution. Been reading my TB can tow 6500 max, but I'm afraid I'm looking at it wrong.

Don't plan on taking trips requiring mountains or anything over an hour or so.

Any thoughts before I get too far in?

 

[The_Roadie]

Welcome!

You're right at the weight limit, but you'd be able to carry nothing in the vehicle. Dealers will say anything to make or keep the sale. Your dry weight of 5700 is NOT the nameplate weight with accessories like AC, spare tire, and the rest. Have you bought the trailer yet and can you look at the nameplate?

There's zero or slightly negative safety margin there, and the length of the trailer is hugely beyond what folks normally tow with this platform. I might not even want a Tahoe for this - a Suburban or maybe Tahoe XL. Wheelbase is a large contributor to stability.

If it's just for an hour or so, I'd borrow a larger tow vehicle to place the trailer in its site.

 

[Speedman_2001]

Thanks for the response man, appreciate it.

That's why I come to you guys - you're not here to sell me something.

Have I bought it... I'm in the middle of it. No paperwork is signed but it's mine as soon as I pick it up, which still leaves me an out. Have about 2 weeks and the weight has been bugging me a bit.

If need be I can get back in to look at the trailer, what exactly should I be looking for on the nameplate?

Chevy says 6400 max, which like you said, I'll be pretty darn close to. Everything around here is pretty flat. Our thought is anything of decent distance or covering hills we're borrowing/renting a bigger truck. But for the local camping use the TB.

 

[The_Roadie]

[video=youtube;EZA1Lhp6GyE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZA1Lhp6GyE[/video]

 

[Speedman_2001]

So the update is 5,834 lbs before any personal stuff is added...

Getting pretty nervous on this one...

Thanks for all the info.

 

[The_Roadie]

Presumably the trailer has excellent brakes and you've got a Prodigy or equivalent controller. You also will need an aux tranny cooler. If the WD hitch is set up properly, you need 10% of the weight on the hitch to minimize sway, which is going to be over 500 pounds. It's all marginal, which might work on the flats in days with no gusty side winds. On a gusty day, the trailer has a HUGE sail area and the tail will be wagging the dog.

If only you were already set up on the tow vehicle and could take out similar trailer before you bought. To see how nervous it would make you. Do you have a few thousand miles experience towing smaller ones? Or is this your first? Why so big a trailer if it's your first? If you have a large family, where are they going to ride? Not in the tow vehicle. Check the OTHER ratings for the amount of cargo allowed in the tow vehicle, knowing that your hitch weight is going to steal 500 pounds of that.

 

[DocBrown]

Last year we bought a travel trailer that is 4750# GVWR and towed it with our '03 TB, I6, 3:42 gears, and a 4800# tow rating. It towed adequately. Not nearly as nice of an experience as towing our old 3500# trailer. That is part of the reason I now have the GMC Sierra in my sig. For the towing distance you are doing you will probably be OK, but I think you will be wanting a beefier tow vehicle in the near future.

One thing I would be most concerned about is the tongue weight. DO NOT go by the sticker on the trailer hitch. That is the hitch's full rating installed on a vehicle that can handle it. The limitation on tongue weight is not the hitch, its the rear axle. IIRC, the max tongue weight for a TB using a weight distribution hitch is 760#. 10% tongue weight is a minimum. Rule of thumb is that the tongue should weigh between 10-15% for stability. If its 13%, you are already over your max tongue weight, and that's without your "stuff". The only way to know for sure is to weight the tongue. That can actually be done with a common bathroom scale if you can find one that goes that high.

And like Roadie said, with the fact that you have to subtract the tongue weight from the cargo capacity of the TB, you'll really be stretching things to the limit and probably beyond.

Towing a box down the road is a different kind of experience from towing a pop-up camper or boat. I personally would not tow any travel trailer longer than 21-23 feet with any GMT 360/370.

Hope this works out for you. Having a trailer is a blast!

EDIT: I was just thinking about a couple of things. First, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion you have a 6000# towing capacity? Without knowing the gears, it could be as low as 4800#, or as high as 5800# for your TB (EXT, 4x4, I6). For your gear ratio, look in the glove box at the RPO code list. Its one of 3 that you are looking for: GU6 = 3:42 ratio (4800# tow capacity), GT4 = 3:73 ratio (5300# tow capacity), GT5 = 4:10 ratio (5800# tow capacity). The actual tow rating number you need will be listed in the manual. Also in the manual is the GCWR. That's the maximum weight both the truck and trailer, with all occupants, "stuff", fuel, etc. can weigh. With 4:10 gears that's 11,000#. If you have 3:42 gears, its only 10,000#. Given the 5800 you already quoted, you are already dangerously close to the GCWR or 1000# over.

 

[Speedman_2001]

Roadie - Been pulling a popup, which is much easier than a full size. Originally decided on this one because it had the space we wanted and wasn't going to make us feel cramped. At the time we were looking at it we didn't think the weight was going to be an issue. Obviously we were way off on that one.

Doc - 6400# is coming from the Chevrolet based off the VIN with a huge BUT that I wasn't paying attention to - GCWR. My TB is the EXT LT with 3.42 gears, 4.2 I6, so basically the same as your 03. So the way we were originally looking at it was "oh sure we can haul 6400#" instead taking into account TB + Camper + Beer + Clothes + People + More Beer.

Thanks for all of the updates and information guys, it's been a great help. Get the joy of calling the dealership today and telling them we made a mistake. From other stuff we've been reading, and from some of the below posts, we're definitely going to keep the overall weight (fully loaded) under 5500#. As you put it Doc, it's adequate but leaves you wanting more. I'm good with that knowing that in a couple years the TB is going to get replaced.

Thanks again guys, and I'm sure I'll be back with some new specs for a whole new round of thoughts.

 

[DocBrown]

My hat's off to you Speedman for really thinking it through. Most people take what the salesman says verbatim.

BTW, with the 3:42 gears the towing capacity is only 4800#.

 

[Speedman_2001]

Thanks man, I tend to over analyze things a bit but in some cases that's a good thing. I enjoyed it when people took what I said verbatim... sales was fun...

So that now brings me to the next possibility for camper plus some questions on break controllers, WDH, etc...

Camper - 2014 Coachmen Ulta-lite 253BH - dry weight (with options) is 4,904. Seems to easily put me under 5,500 loaded. Length - ~ 28 ft. A little long but don't believe that will be a problem. We're losing space on the interior since there's no slide, but that saves ~ 800# in weight.

WDH - Looking at the Fastway E2 - Sway control and weight distribution. Thoughts?

Brake Controller - Roadie is suggesting the Prodigy. Haven't started looking for one yet but assuming price is reasonable that's the way I'll go.

Aux Tranny Cooler - Any suggestions? The easier the install the better. Don't mind getting dirty and am a fairly car savvy guy, just don't want to start messing up tranny lines.

You mentioned with the 3.42 gears the towing capacity is only 4800# - is that because of the gearing or because of the GCWR? I've read on other forums and from talking with others that's even though I'll be a little over GCWR I should be ok towing the above...

I'll keep thanking you guys each time, I definitely appreciate the feedback.

 

[Robbabob]

...instead taking into account TB + Camper + Beer + People + More Beer.

Yup, all the necessities (clothing optional)

 

[DocBrown]

So that now brings me to the next possibility for camper plus some questions on break controllers, WDH, etc...

Questions are good. We can help!

Camper - 2014 Coachmen Ulta-lite 253BH - dry weight (with options) is 4,904. Seems to easily put me under 5,500 loaded. Length - ~ 28 ft. A little long but don't believe that will be a problem. We're losing space on the interior since there's no slide, but that saves ~ 800# in weight.

You mentioned with the 3.42 gears the towing capacity is only 4800# - is that because of the gearing or because of the GCWR? I've read on other forums and from talking with others that's even though I'll be a little over GCWR I should be ok towing the above...

I'll address these first. The GCWR is a hard number. A number of things factor into that number. The gearing, the axle capacities, the brakes, etc. With the 3:42 gears your GCWR is 10,000#. That number should never be exceeded under any circumstances. If you do you put yourself in danger and will really put a strain on your truck. Even coming close puts a strain on your truck. I know, my trailer has a GVWR of 4750#. I was right on the edge of the towing and GCWR capacities of my TB. As I said above, it was adequate but not ideal. So your 5500# loaded weight is way over what you can tow. the towing capacity of your TB is 4800#. That means the GVWR on your trailer can't be more than that.

Never ever go by dry weight. Use the GVWR of the trailer as a planning number. I don't want to discourage you, but if you buy that big trailer and tow it with your TB, you'll hate the towing experience and will be looking at half ton pickups before the year is out.

WDH - Looking at the Fastway E2 - Sway control and weight distribution. Thoughts?

I think any W/D hitch will be fine so long as it meets the weight specs. The good part is that you can use it with any tow vehicle, you may only have to swap out the shank depending on hitch height.

Brake Controller - Roadie is suggesting the Prodigy. Haven't started looking for one yet but assuming price is reasonable that's the way I'll go.

Prodigy 2 or Prodigy 3. I have a Prodigy 2. Excellent brake controller. Lifetime warranty. Set it and forget it. Prodigy's are proportional controlers that work off the momentum of your tow vehicle. Do NOT buy a cheap time delay controller. I had one, waste of money.

Aux Tranny Cooler - Any suggestions? The easier the install the better. Don't mind getting dirty and am a fairly car savvy guy, just don't want to start messing up tranny lines.

A lot of members here like the stacked plate type. I put in a fin plate type. What ever you do, use something. And make sure when you change fluid to use Dex VI. Its full synthetic and your trans will run a little cooler with it.

 

[The_Roadie]

...That can actually be done with a common bathroom scale if you can find one that goes that high..

And if yours doesn't go that high, you can add a second, and spread the force by stacking a wooden bridge across them. Just add them up. Or with a single scale and a good collection of wood planks and blocks, construct a force-reduction lever and then the scale will read 1/3 or whatever of the hitch weight.

Roadie - Been pulling a popup, which is much easier than a full size.

Highly recommend you look into a Trailmanor hard-sided expandable then. Like a popup without canvas, HUGE amounts of room per pound. Available on the used market if you get sticker shock from a new one. Good support forum out there. Mine is a 3023, which is 23 foot put down for towing or storage, and expands to the living area of a 30-footer when expanded. Under 3500 pounds! Tows totally in the wind shadow of the Roadiemobile. It's why I originally got the Envoy.

 

[DocBrown]

Highly recommend you look into a Trailmanor hard-sided expandable then.

And the beauty of these is that you truly can push your towing capacity because of the low profile. Far easier to tow than a box. We looked at them but they aren't our cup of tea.

 

[Mark20]

Never ever go by dry weight. Use the GVWR of the trailer as a planning number. I don't want to discourage you, but if you buy that big trailer and tow it with your TB, you'll hate the towing experience and will be looking at half ton pickups before the year is out.

Been there, done that. I was within specs but asking everything from the Envoy. Tow vehicle is now a Chevy Silverado, and it does a much better job.

 

[IllogicTC]

Been there, done that. I was within specs but asking everything from the Envoy. Tow vehicle is now a Chevy Silverado, and it does a much better job.

While the TB and Envoy have some towing capabilities that are agreeable (and quite so from personal experience) for some towing tasks, I think the idea was to provide the SUV and 5/8-seat experience as a primary function, with towing being secondary or even tertiary function. I believe the idea was exactly this, because when the "common John" thinks towing, they immediately think truck, and that's why there's trucks out there like the Silverado 2500 HD able to haul over 10,000 pounds.

I'd call the TB/Envoy more of a "jack-of-all-trades, master of none." It has some luxury features but are missing some things that cropped up elsewhere, such as cooled seats or a TRUE premium sound system in the post-Lux years. It has some off-road capability but (thanks to the ridiculous front axle design and stupid wet-clutch TC) it's not exactly going to be your first choice to enlist in the mud bog competition. It has some towing capability but it has big brothers with much more design and thought put into this specific purpose. It has a nice bit of pep but if you're looking for true sport you'd obviously not be buying an SUV (no, not even the SS if you're looking to maximize), but rather a Corvette or something. It's a wonderful all-rounder vehicle, it has something for everyone, just not a whole ton of any particular thing. While not particularly a soccer-mom-mobile, the platform seems to have a bit of emphasis on at least being used for the family. Works great for family road trips!

 

[Speedman_2001]

Big thanks to everyone out there for the comments & suggestions. Definitely going to keep this in mind as we continue our hunt.

Thanks again.

 

[Mark20]

I should add the Envoy handled my previous pop-up camper just fine. But there I had at least 1000 LESS pounds and it was almost entirely within the shadow of the Envoy so wind loading was almost 0. the current camper is like pulling a barn door through the wind.