I'm new to this site and I apologize if I am posting in the wrong place. I had done some research on this site and did not come across anything similar to my issue. I had never experienced this issue before but here it goes. I went to start my TB today and when I turned the key on, everything works as usual, the gauges work, lights work radio and the rest. When I turn the key to crank the vehicle, nothing happens. The starter does not turn over and nothing happens. I will try and upload a video to illustrate this.[video=youtube;Yg_XgD1ghas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg_XgD1ghas[/video]
03 Trailblazer will not crank or start
- Thread starter asusma
- Start date
Welcome! You're in a good spot. Surely SOMETHING happens....like the lights go out, the dash lights go dark?
Can you hear any clicking under the hood at the fuse block??
Typically, in order of frequency, what fails most often is the ignition switch, next the starter, finally the starter ralay or the fuse feeding the starter relay.
Do you have a meter and some electrical troubleshooting experience? You should locate discussions pretty easily about "failure to crank" or "changing ignition switch".
Can you hear any clicking under the hood at the fuse block??
Typically, in order of frequency, what fails most often is the ignition switch, next the starter, finally the starter ralay or the fuse feeding the starter relay.
Do you have a meter and some electrical troubleshooting experience? You should locate discussions pretty easily about "failure to crank" or "changing ignition switch".
Thanks for the quick response. There is no clicking, the rapid clicking that I have heard before when trying to start a vehicle with a dead battery, if that is the clicking your talking about. No noises what so ever. One thing that I do recall when starting the vehicle, and I could be wrong, is that the gauges specifically i can remember the odometer and speedometer would go to max then back to its starting position, it does not do that here. Ive looked at the voltage on the dash as i crank, but it does not seem to drop down, but i am not sure if this is a good indicator. I did attempt to jump start the car, just to rule out weather the battery was bad or not and still end up with the same result of nothing happening. Is there an easy way to rule out the ignition switch over the starter? I would hate it to be the starter. I did come across a video that referred to the starter relay, what the individual did was place a jump wire from 87 to 30 while the key was in the on position which led to the starter turning over. I will give that a shot and will also look into the discussions you recommended.
although the first picture gives a good indication all the lights are working, the voltage meter that is shown doesn't give a good picture that your battery is any good ... :-( IF you leave your key in just the ON position, does the needle ever move up??? IF so to where? IF this is indeed an accurate view of the meter, then even trying to boost this system might be futile as the battery load on the booster "mate" would like be to great to help. Get / borrow a meter and confirm the voltage at the battery.
budwich said:
Wouldnt connecting my battery to another running vehicle with cables eliminate the battery as being the issue? I will go ahead and get a volt meter, should I be checking the reading of the battery while cranking or while in the on position? what should be reading be? Thanks for the help.
you would think so but it depends on how bad the battery is and how thick the cables are. Anyways, you didn't answer my question about what your dash meter reads when you just leave your key in ON.
In terms of a multimeter reading, just take a reading with the vehicle just sitting there (ie. key in off). If you want, there after, take a reading with your head lights on and compare the two. That should tell you something about the state of your battery. IF its good, then you can move on to other areas... probably the starting relay before worrying about the starter.
In terms of a multimeter reading, just take a reading with the vehicle just sitting there (ie. key in off). If you want, there after, take a reading with your head lights on and compare the two. That should tell you something about the state of your battery. IF its good, then you can move on to other areas... probably the starting relay before worrying about the starter.
In answer to your question battery s/b 12 to 12.5 volts inactive, while cranking can drop as low as 10 volts. I did notice on first try, about 9 seconds into video the volt meter looks like it got up to near 12 v. If batt stays (holds) at 12v when trying to start here's a pic to help chase things down. I would check easy things first. Need to know if relay 47 is picking, may take two people, one holding the relay to feel activity. If 47 is not picking then Prob could be ignition switch, fuse 34, fuse 22, fuse 17, relay 47, Park/Neutral switch. If 47 picks could be starter (solinoid), corroded cables, battery.. Relay 47 is the same part number of the one next to it that feeds to porwetrain. And you can verify voltages with a meter at the fuses with a pointed meter probe. EG to test ignition switch hold key in start and fuse 11 should have 12v on each side of the metal tabs on the top of the fuse.. If this it to complex let us know and we can assist...
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IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
In regards to the potential for fuses to be the source issue, if you're getting the cluster "test" that means fuse 17 under-hood should be good (sending signal to the PCM), so the other one to check is fuse 22. If it's blown, here's an obvious fix. If it blows again after replacement, then there's another issue involved, likely a short.
If both fuses are good, check all other things on the list. I just point to a fuse as the first thing to look at because it's extraordinarily simple to check and replace if that's what's up before we get into other troubleshooting.
If both fuses are good, check all other things on the list. I just point to a fuse as the first thing to look at because it's extraordinarily simple to check and replace if that's what's up before we get into other troubleshooting.
In response to the suggestions, the battery reads at 11.70 while the vehicle is off, and while in the ON position with the headlights on, reading 11.51 (take into consideration that I have been trying countless times through ought the day so Im guessing it rules out that the battery is bad? I had checked fuses 34, 22, 17 and none of them are blown. Relay 47 does click when I have the key in the "crank" position. I had checked the voltage across fuse 11 and I did not get a reading at all, I tried setting the key in the first position and the second position. I am not an expert with a multimeter so I could have done something wrong, the picture illustrates what I had the multimeter set at when I was testing the fuses. I also removed and inspected the fuses visually to confirm that they were intact. I forgot the check the voltage while cranking so I will bet back to you in regards to the voltage at the battery.
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I'm sorry and apologize fuse 11 was a typo , I meant fuse 17. Your meter looks good, I can't make out the little green figure, but assume it's DV voltage. You'er closing in on this. Relay 47 picking eliminates fuse 17 and a lot of other components... About three more checks and we will have this narrowed down.
1- First look down at the starter from the fuse box side of the engine and you need to locate the smaller purple wire terminal on the starter. That wire and terminal s/b batt voltage when key is in start position. It's the voltage that picks the starter solenoid. If that is good batt voltage then problem is starter, or bad contact (corrosion) On the battery thick wire connection at starter that is covered with black plastic conduit. If no voltage on purple wire go to step #2
2- Pop off the little clear plastic cap on fuse 34, then with voltmeter probe the two solder balls on the fuse and verify batt voltage on both sides. If Ok that says voltage is reaching the fuse and fuse is sending voltage to relay 47 . If OK go to step 3
2- Next swap relay 47 with relay 57, they are the same part number on my truck but VERIFY your part numbers prior to swapping. Reason is even if relay 47 is clicking the actual points internal to the relay could be burnt out. If problem is still there update update us.
1- First look down at the starter from the fuse box side of the engine and you need to locate the smaller purple wire terminal on the starter. That wire and terminal s/b batt voltage when key is in start position. It's the voltage that picks the starter solenoid. If that is good batt voltage then problem is starter, or bad contact (corrosion) On the battery thick wire connection at starter that is covered with black plastic conduit. If no voltage on purple wire go to step #2
2- Pop off the little clear plastic cap on fuse 34, then with voltmeter probe the two solder balls on the fuse and verify batt voltage on both sides. If Ok that says voltage is reaching the fuse and fuse is sending voltage to relay 47 . If OK go to step 3
2- Next swap relay 47 with relay 57, they are the same part number on my truck but VERIFY your part numbers prior to swapping. Reason is even if relay 47 is clicking the actual points internal to the relay could be burnt out. If problem is still there update update us.
This is the latest. I went outside to perform the next three steps and before doing so, I tried to fire it up. I turned the key to crank and released as I normally would when starting it up and it cranked slightly. I never have to hold down and crank like on my other vehicles when starting it up, just turn to start and release and the car cranks itself until it starts. I hope im making sense . Anyways, after the initial crank, I tried again. Took out the key, reinserted it and this time I held the key at the start position while it cranked instead of letting go and it fired up. I am not sure what to conclude from this or if this only complicates things. Im going to let it run for a bit to charge up. Should I go ahead and turn it off and perform the 3 steps reguardless? Look forward to the responses and thanks again!
After a half hour or so I turned it off and tried restarting it about 5 times and it fired up each try.
Check 1: I then checked the voltage at the purple solenoid wire and read 12.3 v.
Check 2:I then removed the cover for fuse 34 and checked the voltage at each solder ball, read 12.33 for each.
Check 3:I then tried to locate relay 57, however I only have the starter relay and nothing past 52 in the fuse box under the hood. I looked at the fuse box behind the driver and did not find a similar relay there either. Where is 57 that you mentioned? It only gets better.
I then went to fire it up again and of course nothing. I tried several times and it behaved the same as yesterday, not making a single noise when cranking.
Check 1: I then checked the voltage at the purple solenoid wire and read 12.3 v.
Check 2:I then removed the cover for fuse 34 and checked the voltage at each solder ball, read 12.33 for each.
Check 3:I then tried to locate relay 57, however I only have the starter relay and nothing past 52 in the fuse box under the hood. I looked at the fuse box behind the driver and did not find a similar relay there either. Where is 57 that you mentioned? It only gets better.
I then went to fire it up again and of course nothing. I tried several times and it behaved the same as yesterday, not making a single noise when cranking.
My post still stands. Most likely the ignition switch. For $20-25 ours are so flaky it's a good idea anyway. If you catch it in the act you can troubleshoot it conclusively. Otherwise I'd just shotgun. Starting with the switch.
I've posted the signals on the ignition switch in many other threads about this issue. Should be easy to find with a search.
Ahhhh, I'm feeling generous today: http://gmtnation.com/f23/replacing-ignition-switch-9033/
I've posted the signals on the ignition switch in many other threads about this issue. Should be easy to find with a search.
Ahhhh, I'm feeling generous today: http://gmtnation.com/f23/replacing-ignition-switch-9033/
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
A note on that multimeter photo, were you testing fuses for continuity or to see if there was current getting through?
If you were just using the multimeter as a better substitute to a visual continuity test, you'd need to have it set to measure resistance (the omega symbol), or continuity (shows an arrow-looking symbol). Maybe it was just worded wrong but that's what I got out of that lol.
Well if he has to manually hold it to get it to start (when it decides it wants to start), I'd think ignition switch or flaky PCM, anyone else?
If you were just using the multimeter as a better substitute to a visual continuity test, you'd need to have it set to measure resistance (the omega symbol), or continuity (shows an arrow-looking symbol). Maybe it was just worded wrong but that's what I got out of that lol.
Well if he has to manually hold it to get it to start (when it decides it wants to start), I'd think ignition switch or flaky PCM, anyone else?
something else i have tried and maybe you guys can help me draw a conclusion from this test. Given that the purple wire on the solenoid does have power and the fact that it did start this morning, I was told to have the car in the on, not the cranking position, and to run a bridge using a handy wire from the purple solenoid wire (which i think comes from the ignition) to the black wire above it in the picture (which runs from the + terminal on the battery). This should kick out the shaft on the starter from my understanding, something that I would hear. The jump wire did spark as I was making contact, but no clicking or anything from the starter. I tried this several times and nothing. Does this indicate that the starter is shot, or that the solenoid on the starter is shot?
IllogicTC, after i turned off the truck this morning and attempted the repeated starts, I did not have to hold the key in the crank position like i did initially this morning. I just wanted to be clear on my previous post in regards to that.
the roadie, thanks for the link! much appreciated
Thanks again for all the information guys! Cant wait to get to the bottom of the issue, opposed to my sad approach in the past of throwing new parts at it
IllogicTC, after i turned off the truck this morning and attempted the repeated starts, I did not have to hold the key in the crank position like i did initially this morning. I just wanted to be clear on my previous post in regards to that.
the roadie, thanks for the link! much appreciated
Thanks again for all the information guys! Cant wait to get to the bottom of the issue, opposed to my sad approach in the past of throwing new parts at it
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The purple wire should ONLY have voltage on it when the ignition switch is in the START position, not during RUN. And when you say it's silent, does that include the starter relay, or is somebody listening closely to only the starter?asusma said:
This certainly is a clue that the starter or starter solenoid is flaky. But the first observation says the ignition switch or starter relay is flaky. Can you confirm that the purple wire has 12V on it even when the key is not in the START position?asusma said:
asusma, your "test" using the "hot wire jumper" at the starter should cause the starter motor to do something especially if the key is in "ON". Basically, your "jumper" from the black to the purple is doing the work of your key / switch and the other relays / stuff. IF that doesn't do something, then it is likely your starter has an issue... but make sure that you confirm the black does indeed have 12v... which you kind of do by saying it sparks but just in case. Further make sure that there is a good ground at the starter as sometimes the body of the starter and the motor don't conduct well because of oils and rust. The starter gets its ground from the mounting connection. My guess based on your results from the "jumper test" right now is that your starter or the solenoid (on a lot of starters, you can just replace the solenoid) is bad.
PS. take a hammer or wrench and tap on the side of the solenoid when you do your "hot wire trick" and see if that helps the outcome... it may tell you a bit more.
PS. take a hammer or wrench and tap on the side of the solenoid when you do your "hot wire trick" and see if that helps the outcome... it may tell you a bit more.
I have rechecked the voltages and this is what I got.
the following should better explain the key positions, and for simplicity, so i dont refer to one thing but mean something else.
#0 = key in ignition but not turned
#1 = key turned to first position
#2 = key turned to second position
#3 = key in the position that should start the car and crank it over
+ = positive on battery
- = negative on battery
#0 #1 #2 #3 using multimeter to test from:
purple wire at starter 12.11v 11.9v 11.79v cant test alone + to purple wire
**(placing the purple wire to - reads nothing as expected in 0,1,2 and 3. )
Power Wire on starter 12.11v 11.9v 11.79v cant test alone - to black wire on starter
Battery + to - 12.11v 11.9v 11.79v cant test alone + to -
purple wire gave a voltage ~12 at all positions except crank bc i couldnt test since i was by myself can im sure it would be the same reading.
Purple wire (-) to black wire (+) on starter:
sparked and only could hear the sparks and nothing no other noise from starter, this is based on the assumption that the noise i should be hearing is louder than the sparks. Also placed hand while sparking/bridging the two wires on the relay and the relay did not "jump" or tick as it does when i crank the car. when cranking, the relay only "jumps" or ticks once opposed to continuously, not sure how its suppose to function but this is what i observed. I lastly took out the relay and bridged from 30 to 87, bottom right and top left if facing the fuse box from the driver side fender. this also sparked when i made contact with the two but the starter did not turn over WHEN cranking/#3.
I however did not have the chance to test the grounding of the starter because I did not remove the starter to check for corrosion between the bolts and the contact points of the starter to the mount. If I could take it off, I would then just have it tested at autozone to draw a conclusion in regards to the starter/solenid being the issue.
Let me know what you guys can take from this, I am assuming its either the starter, the solenoid or maybe the ignition switch. I say maybe to the ignition switch bc I am assuming by "hot wiring" the purple to black on the starter, this bypasses the ignition switch especially with key in the #2 position.
the following should better explain the key positions, and for simplicity, so i dont refer to one thing but mean something else.
#0 = key in ignition but not turned
#1 = key turned to first position
#2 = key turned to second position
#3 = key in the position that should start the car and crank it over
+ = positive on battery
- = negative on battery
#0 #1 #2 #3 using multimeter to test from:
purple wire at starter 12.11v 11.9v 11.79v cant test alone + to purple wire
**(placing the purple wire to - reads nothing as expected in 0,1,2 and 3. )
Power Wire on starter 12.11v 11.9v 11.79v cant test alone - to black wire on starter
Battery + to - 12.11v 11.9v 11.79v cant test alone + to -
purple wire gave a voltage ~12 at all positions except crank bc i couldnt test since i was by myself can im sure it would be the same reading.
Purple wire (-) to black wire (+) on starter:
sparked and only could hear the sparks and nothing no other noise from starter, this is based on the assumption that the noise i should be hearing is louder than the sparks. Also placed hand while sparking/bridging the two wires on the relay and the relay did not "jump" or tick as it does when i crank the car. when cranking, the relay only "jumps" or ticks once opposed to continuously, not sure how its suppose to function but this is what i observed. I lastly took out the relay and bridged from 30 to 87, bottom right and top left if facing the fuse box from the driver side fender. this also sparked when i made contact with the two but the starter did not turn over WHEN cranking/#3.
I however did not have the chance to test the grounding of the starter because I did not remove the starter to check for corrosion between the bolts and the contact points of the starter to the mount. If I could take it off, I would then just have it tested at autozone to draw a conclusion in regards to the starter/solenid being the issue.
Let me know what you guys can take from this, I am assuming its either the starter, the solenoid or maybe the ignition switch. I say maybe to the ignition switch bc I am assuming by "hot wiring" the purple to black on the starter, this bypasses the ignition switch especially with key in the #2 position.
budwich, i apologize and did not tap the solenoid as you advised, i will do that shortly and get back to you with an answer.
no problem. Anyways, your latest voltage tests have a "funny". With the key in but not turned anywhere, there should be no voltage reading on the purple wire. I assume your are placing the red probe of your meter on the purple and the black on a known ground... right? If this is the case, my guess is that your solenoid is broken.
re-reading your previous post, I probably don't understand how you are placing your meter to do your readings.... BUT what's this statement "Purple wire (-) to black wire (+) on starter:".... yikes.... what does this mean????? don't use "+" or "-" unless you are referring to the battery posts or the test leads of the meter. This seems to imply that you ran a jumper to the purple back to the back "-" and another back to "+" for the black... hopefully not.
re-reading your previous post, I probably don't understand how you are placing your meter to do your readings.... BUT what's this statement "Purple wire (-) to black wire (+) on starter:".... yikes.... what does this mean????? don't use "+" or "-" unless you are referring to the battery posts or the test leads of the meter. This seems to imply that you ran a jumper to the purple back to the back "-" and another back to "+" for the black... hopefully not.
Im sorry if you guys are getting confused or frustrated with my poor terminology and bad attempt at explaining myself, I hope this clarifies things.
for my placement of the multimeter, its as follows. For "from P to +" I placed the multimeter red probe at + and multimeter black probe at P and got the recorded voltages. "From B to -", I placed multimeter red probe at B and multimeter black probe at - and got the recorded voltages. "battery + to -" Multimeter red probe at + and black probe at -.
budwich, for the bridging at the starter and according to the picture in this post, i placed a wire from P to B . it did spark but nothing else happened. I tried hitting the solenoid with a screwdriver while bridging and still nothing. When i test the voltage at P, i only get a voltage reading if i place my multimeter from P to +, and no reading from P to - with the key out, or with the key in the ignition at any position.
for my placement of the multimeter, its as follows. For "from P to +" I placed the multimeter red probe at + and multimeter black probe at P and got the recorded voltages. "From B to -", I placed multimeter red probe at B and multimeter black probe at - and got the recorded voltages. "battery + to -" Multimeter red probe at + and black probe at -.
budwich, for the bridging at the starter and according to the picture in this post, i placed a wire from P to B . it did spark but nothing else happened. I tried hitting the solenoid with a screwdriver while bridging and still nothing. When i test the voltage at P, i only get a voltage reading if i place my multimeter from P to +, and no reading from P to - with the key out, or with the key in the ignition at any position.
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One thing that I should mention is that once in a while when i start the car, the 4X4 service light comes on, and usually if i shut off the car and restart it the 4X4 light will turn off. Also, the lights that illuminate when selecting 4low 4high 2x4 or A4x4 have, not so much recently all illuminated at start up and remained illuminated and normally i could get it to behave normal if i turn off the vehicle and restart it, then the proper selection would only be illuminated. I don't know if this has anything to do with my current problem, but I just wanted to mention that in case it somehow does tie in. Is there any way to test the PNP switch on the transmission, or any signs that may indicate it is faulty? Thank you guys!
asusma, Very good clearification.... however you really need the #3 results. If you have a Radio Shack, Auto Zone, O'reilley's or similar close by. Go pick up a set of 'Alligator Clip Test Leads" That will allow you to extend the meter distance. You can clip a lead on the purple wire w/other end clipped on positive probe and then put the meter in front of windshield or possibly in the car when testing for #3 conditions. Search on " alligator clip test leads" to see what I'm talking about.. When using them just make sure none of the exposed metal on the leads touches the chassis ground, use tape if necessary.. Worth buying as they will always come in handy when using a meter... By the way glad I moved out of the snowbelt, your starter looks like you may have a corrosion problem on the leads..The #3 purple wire test is key..
1) In general, all voltmeter readings are made with the black meter lead on ground. Frame ground. Battery ground. Never a wire connected to battery 12V (hot).
2) The 4WD issue is separate. And probably caused by a failure to communicate from the PCM to the TCCM at start-up time. 2002 TCCMs were notorious for this. You may have been built with a left-over 2002.
2) The 4WD issue is separate. And probably caused by a failure to communicate from the PCM to the TCCM at start-up time. 2002 TCCMs were notorious for this. You may have been built with a left-over 2002.
bobdec, i did have a pair of alligator clips handy thankfully. So, alligator clip from purple wire P to red probe, black probe to ground/battary -. It did in fact only show a reading when cranking, otherwise it was at 0v. during crank, it read 10.84V and in the other position it was .02V . Also, my battery is at 11.4 v from all the cranking and whatnot ive been doing to it. I tried to bridge P with B using the alligator clips while hitting the starter and also hitting the solenoid but nothing.
Doing more searching and learning about starters, based on the bridging test, something should have happened if the starter or the solenoid are in working order. Given that there is a volt reading at the purple wire coming from the ignition on the solenoid when the key is cranking, from my understanding, indicates that the ignition switch and the PNP switch are also in working order, because if either or both were faulty, then there would be no voltage reading during crank, right? If you guys and gals feel the same way and are drawing the same conclusion form this all, should I buy a new starter or have mine rebuilt. If I do buy a new one, does it have to be specific to my vehicle down to the trim, (2003 Trailblazer LTZ 4.2L i6) or would any 2003 4.2L i6 trailblazer starter work for me? The reason I ask this is because I was searching ebay, and i can only come across starters that are trim specific, mostly EXT's. Look forward to hearing back and thanks for getting me this far and for the new knowledge.
christo829
Member
You should be able to use any 2002-2005 unit for the I6. Check out Rockauto.com. They've got about 7 different ones listed.
Not sure about later years. A quick web search seems to show a general cutoff at 2005, so there may have been a design change.
Good Luck!
Chris
Not sure about later years. A quick web search seems to show a general cutoff at 2005, so there may have been a design change.
Good Luck!
Chris
:-( it would appear that you need a bit of "refreshing" on how to use a meter. As roadie indicated, normally voltage measurements are taken with respect to a reference point... which in most cases is a ground... a known ground since voltage that you are looking for is a "potential" (energy) relationship from ground... ie. 12v is 12 "potential energy units" from ground. So when you took any of measurements and placed the "black" test lead of the meter at a ground point (ie. the - battery post... likely a ground but only IF the ground strapping and motor metal parts are in good shape), and placed the "red" test lead of the meter at a point, then those measurements likely mean something. Good.... but in your effort, the set of measurements that you did this for was when you put the black on the battery and the red at the "black wire" of the start... which just goes back to the battery... :-( basically all you did was test for voltage across your battery... OK... but not really of value since that could readily be done. It does confirm that the voltage remained there for the whole "key experience", which is kind of expected since the wiring is thick and unlikely to break.... 
In a round about way, you kind of did this for your other "technique" ... kind of in reverse by placing the black at the battery + (NOT the ground) and placing the red at the P wire. The problem with this "technique" is that you aren't really sure what is grounded... and since the + of the battery is a known potential above ground, any where you touch the black test lead may result in some form of circuit "connection" either directly or thru even some small form of "leakage" which can occur especially with windings of inductors / moisture / etc everywhere.
OK, enough... hopefully that will help in the future.
Back to testing, what you need to do is a good test like your other one with the black test lead at the -ve of the battery and the red test lead at the P wire... doing the same key things.... As others indicated, getting the key in start mode for this particular measurement would certain help a lot.
Lastly, when you did the "hot wire trick" how thick was the wire. It has to be at least as thick as the wire you see going in as the purple. Most people just use a screw driver...
If that doesn't cause the starter to make noise, you have likely found your issue... the starter, main motor or the solenoid.
In a round about way, you kind of did this for your other "technique" ... kind of in reverse by placing the black at the battery + (NOT the ground) and placing the red at the P wire. The problem with this "technique" is that you aren't really sure what is grounded... and since the + of the battery is a known potential above ground, any where you touch the black test lead may result in some form of circuit "connection" either directly or thru even some small form of "leakage" which can occur especially with windings of inductors / moisture / etc everywhere.
OK, enough... hopefully that will help in the future.
Back to testing, what you need to do is a good test like your other one with the black test lead at the -ve of the battery and the red test lead at the P wire... doing the same key things.... As others indicated, getting the key in start mode for this particular measurement would certain help a lot.
Lastly, when you did the "hot wire trick" how thick was the wire. It has to be at least as thick as the wire you see going in as the purple. Most people just use a screw driver...
If that doesn't cause the starter to make noise, you have likely found your issue... the starter, main motor or the solenoid.
Thanks for the info Chris, I will check out rockauto.com.
Budwich, your absolutely right, I did need a refresher and doing this the wrong way and then going back surely did the trick!
To answer ur questions, using alligator clips, I was able to test the voltage while cranking alone. The alligator clip made it easy for me to place the multimeter in the hood so I could see it when cranking. The probes from the meter were hooked up as follows, red probe to P via alligator clips, and the black probe to a good ground. I tried ground at both the battery - and a good ground point in the engine compartment, both resulting in the same measurement at crank/#3.
There was no voltage reading at any key position (#0,#1,#2), include no key. Cranking the key, i had a reading of 10.84Volts. the battery voltage read 11.4V using the multimeter, not interior cluster gauge.
The wire that i used to "hot wire" is just at thick as the purple wire leading to the solenoid. I did use a screwdriver initially but turned to the wire to see if it would make a difference.
Budwich, your absolutely right, I did need a refresher and doing this the wrong way and then going back surely did the trick!
To answer ur questions, using alligator clips, I was able to test the voltage while cranking alone. The alligator clip made it easy for me to place the multimeter in the hood so I could see it when cranking. The probes from the meter were hooked up as follows, red probe to P via alligator clips, and the black probe to a good ground. I tried ground at both the battery - and a good ground point in the engine compartment, both resulting in the same measurement at crank/#3.
There was no voltage reading at any key position (#0,#1,#2), include no key. Cranking the key, i had a reading of 10.84Volts. the battery voltage read 11.4V using the multimeter, not interior cluster gauge.
The wire that i used to "hot wire" is just at thick as the purple wire leading to the solenoid. I did use a screwdriver initially but turned to the wire to see if it would make a difference.
Great... although the voltage is somewhat low, I would have expected something especially when using the screwdriver/wire. My guess holds.
christo829
Member
I think Budwich has it. While that battery voltage is a bit low, you should have gotten *some*
sort of reaction from the starter.
If you hit up Rockauto for the part, the latest 5% discount number is 1885494816400075. Good until 2/1/2014.
If I didn't copy that correctly, just search for Rockauto discount.
Cheers-
Chris
sort of reaction from the starter.
If you hit up Rockauto for the part, the latest 5% discount number is 1885494816400075. Good until 2/1/2014.
If I didn't copy that correctly, just search for Rockauto discount.
Cheers-
Chris
Thank you guys for all the help and effort! The battery is a bit lower than usual because of the countless times i tried cranking it out of frustration, its normally above 12. Thanks again Chris for that, much appreciated!
When I thought it was over, the car started this morning so I drove it to a garage to change the starter, as I figured that was the issue. When I got there I knew it wouldnt start once off. I then checked the battery to rule that out with a load tester and that came back ok. Went to start and nothing as expected, except that this time the starter relay didnt click. Not a problem I went out and bought a new one, still no crank or start and also the relay did not click. Ok I then checked the terminals that the relay plugs into. Terminal 86 & 87 tested with a test light from - to each terminal and they lit up. Next I checked 85. According to may30lt on youtube, test light at terminal 30 to + lead should light up only on crank, mine does not light up at all. however, If I set a jump wire from 30 to 87 the starter turns over and the car will start but not stay on. Also I am able to do this with the key in all positions and without the key in the ignition. 
I dont know if the car should be cranking when doing this w no key in but I made a video to illustrate this.
[video=youtube;OlWCuaCuUR0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlWCuaCuUR0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]
Could it be my computer? Now my windows will not roll up, no chime when the door is open and no interior lights turn on when doors are open but the green light illuminating the screen on the dash and the temp control screen. I went ahead and disconnected the battery hoping it will reset the computer. I will check the fuses one by one in case something burned out. Also, before noticing that the windows radio etc didnt work, when I crank the car or set it into the second position, on top of the engine near the throttle body and the plastic housing between the throttle body and computer, I csn feel some movement, i loud tick. If I put my hand on the throttle body piece that the pigtail plugs into I can feel it, but I can also feel it on the plastic round piece the throttle body is attached to, NOT the part that says vortec 4200. I will include a video that shows what im talking about and u can hear the click/tick. Let me know what can be made of all this. [video=youtube;tp_geitFXvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp_geitFXvA&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]
I dont know if the car should be cranking when doing this w no key in but I made a video to illustrate this. [video=youtube;OlWCuaCuUR0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlWCuaCuUR0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]
Could it be my computer? Now my windows will not roll up, no chime when the door is open and no interior lights turn on when doors are open but the green light illuminating the screen on the dash and the temp control screen. I went ahead and disconnected the battery hoping it will reset the computer. I will check the fuses one by one in case something burned out. Also, before noticing that the windows radio etc didnt work, when I crank the car or set it into the second position, on top of the engine near the throttle body and the plastic housing between the throttle body and computer, I csn feel some movement, i loud tick. If I put my hand on the throttle body piece that the pigtail plugs into I can feel it, but I can also feel it on the plastic round piece the throttle body is attached to, NOT the part that says vortec 4200. I will include a video that shows what im talking about and u can hear the click/tick. Let me know what can be made of all this. [video=youtube;tp_geitFXvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp_geitFXvA&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]
Afterabiut a half hour I connected the battery and it fired right up. The car has fired up several times now. I will keep you guys postedon what happens in the next few days.
:-( wow.... not sure what to say. Keep a wire with you at all times ...
Not sure about your tests this time as I don't have a diagram with pin numbers on it BUT as you have found jumping 30 to 87 causes a start. That means that 30 has power on it at all times (kind of expected if you look at the posted diagram) ... however you interpretation of the youtube video is well "incorrect"... why because if you put your test light at 30 and the other end at the + of the battery, of course they are at both the same potential... nothing is going to happen at least as far as I know. Not sure about the other tests, they kind of sound off. Anyways, back to the "wire method", there is a good chance that if your "steal" your vehicle this way, then all you have to do is have the key in "ON" and the vehicle should run fine, and away you go... That is IF the ignition switch is functioning correctly which it might not and which roadie had indicated might be your problem. IF your replacement relay isn't working, it would appear that perhaps your switch is flakey as you seem to cause the starter to function with little or no problem now especially if you have a wire...
The switch doesn't actually "talk" directly with your starter relay but sends a "condition" to your PCM which does the "work" on the relay. Of course, the PCM can only do its thing IF it gets the signal (voltage) from the switch AND the PCM has enough power on it own to function properly. Your non-working other things appear to indicate other power issues... maybe a fuse went while you were "learning testing methods" on your vehicle... As you indicated, check your fuses.
Not sure about your tests this time as I don't have a diagram with pin numbers on it BUT as you have found jumping 30 to 87 causes a start. That means that 30 has power on it at all times (kind of expected if you look at the posted diagram) ... however you interpretation of the youtube video is well "incorrect"... why because if you put your test light at 30 and the other end at the + of the battery, of course they are at both the same potential... nothing is going to happen at least as far as I know. Not sure about the other tests, they kind of sound off. Anyways, back to the "wire method", there is a good chance that if your "steal" your vehicle this way, then all you have to do is have the key in "ON" and the vehicle should run fine, and away you go...
That is IF the ignition switch is functioning correctly which it might not and which roadie had indicated might be your problem. IF your replacement relay isn't working, it would appear that perhaps your switch is flakey as you seem to cause the starter to function with little or no problem now especially if you have a wire... The switch doesn't actually "talk" directly with your starter relay but sends a "condition" to your PCM which does the "work" on the relay. Of course, the PCM can only do its thing IF it gets the signal (voltage) from the switch AND the PCM has enough power on it own to function properly. Your non-working other things appear to indicate other power issues... maybe a fuse went while you were "learning testing methods" on your vehicle...
As you indicated, check your fuses.Budwich, i was able to just get the car cranking with the hot wire method. When the car did fire up, the starter continued to turn over so i took the hot wire out, which in turn turned the vehicle off. I drove around and then it happened again. I tried disconnecting the battery for a period of time but no luck. cranking did not result in anything, the starter relay does "kick" when i crank but noting from the starter.
This is the video that i used as a guide to test the terminals. According to him, you should ONLY get the test light to light up when key is cranked because its grounding this wire. He talks about this at 3:14.
[video=youtube;iMzdYCA0s2w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMzdYCA0s2w[/video]
This is the video that i used as a guide to test the terminals. According to him, you should ONLY get the test light to light up when key is cranked because its grounding this wire. He talks about this at 3:14.
[video=youtube;iMzdYCA0s2w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMzdYCA0s2w[/video]
OK... so I looked at the video... pretty straight forward... BUT I don't think you followed it in the tests that you performed and that I commented about. Yes, I didn't guess right about what pin numbers were what and yes your starter will continue to run with the jumper there. BUT, in your description, you said you tested pin 85, BUT if you did, you did express it in the paragraph anywhere. The video does do the test.... I think. Anyways, you are going to be pretty experienced in start testing by the end of this... PIN 85 is probably your key objective.... since it appears that you can readily wire something to cause the starter to move... so I would forget looking at the starter any more.
PIN 85 is probably your key objective.... since it appears that you can readily wire something to cause the starter to move... so I would forget looking at the starter any more.Budwich, this is what I had as a result for the starter relay terminal #85. It did this test because i did not feel the relay ticking when I cranked.
Last night, it again would not start last night. I tried the following with no luck:
Cranked and nothing, tried several times, next I removed the fuze box to check the relay, it did tick on crank. I then removed the fuse and tried to hot wire it but the starter would not engage. I tried this several times with no luck. I then disconnected the battery for a few hours and when i went back, still nothing, and by nothing I mean that everything worked but the car starter would not turn over when cranking the key. Im out of ideas on what to do or what the issue is. Let me know your thoughts.
asusma said:
Last night, it again would not start last night. I tried the following with no luck:
Cranked and nothing, tried several times, next I removed the fuze box to check the relay, it did tick on crank. I then removed the fuse and tried to hot wire it but the starter would not engage. I tried this several times with no luck. I then disconnected the battery for a few hours and when i went back, still nothing, and by nothing I mean that everything worked but the car starter would not turn over when cranking the key. Im out of ideas on what to do or what the issue is. Let me know your thoughts.
Not sure what to say... other than you aren't doing your test correctly.
Again, the statement about checking pin85 -> then you go to a connection for pin 30... that is not pin 85 and it DOES NOT directly check pin 85.
Watch the video again, and do the check that he does for pin 85.... which basically touching pin 85 with the other end of the test light on the battery. His checks and approach is good, follow it exactly.
You need to get "predictableness" in your testing and results along with clear and concise observations / reports.
I guess as of right now.... what happens when you "wire jump" your relay pins from 87 to 30? It should always cause something... if it doesn't, then you have a something up with wiring. IF it doesn't, break out the meter again and investigate the voltage at 87.... DON'T go doing a whole bunch of other things which will cause something else to happen and then things start or otherwise as you are then just "blindly" go around "disturbing" the system / circuit. You can only solve this problem, with causing a PREDICTABLE condition, if its not there, break out the meter and measure to see why. As with the posted video, follow the circuit diagram as he explains.
Again, the statement about checking pin85 -> then you go to a connection for pin 30... that is not pin 85 and it DOES NOT directly check pin 85.
Watch the video again, and do the check that he does for pin 85.... which basically touching pin 85 with the other end of the test light on the battery. His checks and approach is good, follow it exactly.
You need to get "predictableness" in your testing and results along with clear and concise observations / reports.
I guess as of right now.... what happens when you "wire jump" your relay pins from 87 to 30? It should always cause something... if it doesn't, then you have a something up with wiring. IF it doesn't, break out the meter again and investigate the voltage at 87.... DON'T go doing a whole bunch of other things which will cause something else to happen and then things start or otherwise as you are then just "blindly" go around "disturbing" the system / circuit. You can only solve this problem, with causing a PREDICTABLE condition, if its not there, break out the meter and measure to see why. As with the posted video, follow the circuit diagram as he explains.
Budwich, I went ahead and did this one step at a time very carefully and these are my results.
For the Starter Relay Terminals.
according to video, contacts 86 and 87 with the key in the ON position should have power using the test light. I also had the same result, power at contacts 86 and 87 with key in ON position.
Contact 85, connecting the test light from + terminal to 85, we should have power when turning the key to crank. I had the same result, test light turned on when cranking just like the video.
Having the key to ON, you should be able to get the car to crank from terminal 30 to terminal 87. mine DOES NOT crank. according to the video, one of two things are wrong.
1: The wire from lead 30 to starter, Purple is bad/corroded
I checked the voltage when key cranked and the wire is good, I had 11.5v, given that the battery is at 11.5v currently.
2: Starter is bad
I checked the voltage on the wire coming from the + battery terminal to starter and it has a continuous 11.5v current to it, as it should.
Let me know what you guys can conclude from this because this is the same results as the day before.
In the meantime I am going to track down the rest of the wiring diagrams and trace each one of these friggin wires.
For the Starter Relay Terminals.
according to video, contacts 86 and 87 with the key in the ON position should have power using the test light. I also had the same result, power at contacts 86 and 87 with key in ON position.
Contact 85, connecting the test light from + terminal to 85, we should have power when turning the key to crank. I had the same result, test light turned on when cranking just like the video.
Having the key to ON, you should be able to get the car to crank from terminal 30 to terminal 87. mine DOES NOT crank. according to the video, one of two things are wrong.
1: The wire from lead 30 to starter, Purple is bad/corroded
I checked the voltage when key cranked and the wire is good, I had 11.5v, given that the battery is at 11.5v currently.
2: Starter is bad
I checked the voltage on the wire coming from the + battery terminal to starter and it has a continuous 11.5v current to it, as it should.
Let me know what you guys can conclude from this because this is the same results as the day before.
In the meantime I am going to track down the rest of the wiring diagrams and trace each one of these friggin wires.
